Customizing RMU2080D

[hurricaneoleg]

Hello.

I'm VERY new in this field, the school in my building uses Rmu2080d radios out of the box, they constantly hear construction workers and so on, plus they all communicate on a single channel, it's very annoying.

They bought these garbage radios on the internet instead or much better hytera bd502/pd502 or Motorola cp100d (opinion based on user/forums feedback), I need a way to make their conversations secure. Can anyone suggest what channels and options I should use? I bought the cps cable and downloaded the software but... Because I'm a super-noob (ZERO experience) I'd like to know what people with experience think.
I also want to know if there is a way to make these radios communicate with Hytera bd502/pd762 that my team uses or Motorola xpr 7550e, assuming I can ever set it up.

If I posted this in a wrong place I do apologize, I live in NY and thought NY was the best place to ask this.

Thank you everyone!

 

[a417]

What are you licensed for?

 

[hurricaneoleg]

I'm sorry but I'm not even sure how to answer this question. I just need to change their channels around so they can communicate with each other securely on very cheap radios. Need an advice which channels to pick and what settings to apply. Just some basic advice, that's all. These radios are analog and can't do much l anyway, from what I've gathered from the internet.

 

[XVCham]

Cp100d does not support encryption (at least from what I'm aware of). I believe Cp200d supports basic encryption that is more or less motorola MotoTRBO proprietary (please correct me if I'm wrong about that).

First, speak to administration in the school or the workplace regarding what type of license you are on (business frequency license). I can't speak for US since I reside in Canada.

Second, I highly suggest meeting with a person near where you are or visiting a radio shop to get more info. There is only so much people can do on online forum and things can very easily go wrong.

Xpr 7550E are great radios, I have couple 7550 & 6550. They are quite the learning curve to set up correctly. The software is easy to use for most "reasonably experienced" radio techs as well.

 

[mmckenna]

I'm sorry but I'm not even sure how to answer this question. I just need to change their channels around so they can communicate with each other securely on very cheap radios. Need an advice which channels to pick and what settings to apply. Just some basic advice, that's all. These radios are analog and can't do much l anyway, from what I've gathered from the internet.

FCC licenses are required, not optional. There is no waiver for "we're just a school", or "we don't have a budget", or "we bought them on e-Bay".

I understand trying to help them out, but don't get them or yourself into a situation where you are causing interference to licensed users. You cannot just pick random frequencies and start using them.

If the school is licensed, anything you do to the radios needs to fall within the limitations of that license. If you can share with us some details, we may be able to find if the school is licensed or not.

People here will be happy to help you, but you do need to provide some details. If the school is licensed, this may be as simple as making some slight changes to the radio programming. If they are not licensed, we can point you in the right direction to get an FCC issued license.

Be wary of those that try to help you out and tell you that the "FCC doesn't care", or "It doesn't matter". If it is worth doing, it is worth doing right.

 

[hurricaneoleg]

FCC licenses are required, not optional. There is no waiver for "we're just a school", or "we don't have a budget", or "we bought them on e-Bay".

I understand trying to help them out, but don't get them or yourself into a situation where you are causing interference to licensed users. You cannot just pick random frequencies and start using them.

If the school is licensed, anything you do to the radios needs to fall within the limitations of that license. If you can share with us some details, we may be able to find if the school is licensed or not.

People here will be happy to help you, but you do need to provide some details. If the school is licensed, this may be as simple as making some slight changes to the radio programming. If they are not licensed, we can point you in the right direction to get an FCC issued license.

Be wary of those that try to help you out and tell you that the "FCC doesn't care", or "It doesn't matter". If it is worth doing, it is worth doing right.

I thought business radios operate on royalty and license free bands?

It's a charter school and they have enough money, they just can't get rid of 30+ radios and replace them with digital ones.

The reason I mentioned cp100d or 200 is because they're digital, from what I can tell, also cheaper than any xpr and more rugged than the SL version.


I find out if they have a license today, again all I wanted to do is to limit the interference, of which they're getting and causing plenty.

 

[hurricaneoleg]

I just spoke to the dean and she confirmed exactly what you said: they don't have a license and have no idea what they are because the Amazon store that sells them didn't tell them. I explained the possible consequences and she contacted her IT department to get the proper licensing. I think I'm going to let them figure this out without my involvement. Once they get the proper licensing I will offer to customize the radios by doing one and cloning the rest, the cable(s) I bought allow me to do just that.

There are many options though, I posted this because I wasn't sure which channels should be used and there are also other options, such as scrambling and others. I never had to do this before but suddenly I find myself trying to fix/program two different high end Motorola/hytera radios, program 5 cheap bd502 and pd362 hytera radios currently in use by me and customize or clone the setup of 30+ radios used by a charter school because they just buy them and use them out of the box, catching conversations of at least 4 other groups by accident.

 

[mmckenna]

IT department may be of little help. While radio often gets rolled into the larger IT department, it is an entirely different discipline.
If the dean strikes out with IT, contact a local radio shop and let them know what you want to do. They can provide a couple of options:

- Frequency coordination and licensing. This will result in a channel (or channels) licensed to the school with less chance of interference.
- Itinerant licensing. No coordination, and more chances of interference.
- Cut their losses, get a properly designed/installed radio system in place to serve all their needs. More upfront costs, but much better than buying random radios off the internet.

The right way to do this is to have a frequency coordinator find useable frequencies. That may not necessarily fall in the capabilities of the radios that were purchased. This is the #1 reason why buying radios first, then seeking licensing, is the wrong way to go. Purchasing radios should be one of the last things that happens.

As a short term solution (and this by no means makes anything legal), you can set a PL or DPL tone on the TX and RX for all the radios. This will filter out most of the other users that are on frequency. They'll still be there, but radio users will not hear them.

 

[mmckenna]

I thought business radios operate on royalty and license free bands?

Absolutely not.

It's a charter school and they have enough money, they just can't get rid of 30+ radios and replace them with digital ones.

The reason I mentioned cp100d or 200 is because they're digital, from what I can tell, also cheaper than any xpr and more rugged than the SL version.

Digital will not fix the issue. You may not hear the other users, but there will still be interference.

Trying to figure out how they bought 30+ radios and never once thought about licensing.

 

[ecps92]

Absolutely not.



Digital will not fix the issue. You may not hear the other users, but there will still be interference.

Trying to figure out how they bought 30+ radios and never once thought about licensing.

Likely ignored the fine print that is "usually" on or in the Non CCR branded radio box/directions

 

[hurricaneoleg]

First off, thank you for the pl/dpl explanation. Secondly, as far as "why" goes, it's probably because they didn't and don't have your knowledge on the matter, or even mine and never bought radios before? The It department didn't exist when they ordered the first 20, from what I understand they, literally, Googled "best cheap business radio" and one of the results was the 2080d, none of the radios sold on Amazon have any disclaimers, they don't warn explicitly or otherwise that a license may be needed, I mean, I've used these radios my whole life and never even heard of licensing until yesterday. The only reason I think they need it is because they're a school and may get in trouble otherwise.
I do appreciate your help though, I have one of their extras that they gave me for testing, will have to adjust those pldpl settings ans channel numbers and see if it actually works. The IT department will probably never get it done, every time they promise something, tentatively, it usually ends up on a back burner until they get desperate and hire someone.

As far as cutting their losses or investigating channels and frequencies, that's just not going to happen, same goes for taking it to a dealer because, same as I, they had a very bad experience with a couple of them, as a matter of fact, they wanted $50 each to program all radios and told them that they must lock them to prevent loss of Motorola intellectual property, which means they can only be services there from then on.

Not sure you're aware of this because I wasn't but, as it turns out, NY has MANY dealers, the smaller ones are shady and are often m competing against each another, it's difficult to do business with them because they lie frequently and use questionable business tactics, the bigger guys are too expensive and their customer service sucks.

This is why my only option is to help them or to do nothing, I'm not going to try and force them to get rid of all their radios just because there are better options out there, they won't ever take me seriously again.

 

[mmckenna]

First off, thank you for the pl/dpl explanation. Secondly, as far as "why" goes, it's probably because they didn't and don't have your knowledge on the matter, or even mine and never bought radios before? The It department didn't exist when they ordered the first 20, from what I understand they, literally, Googled "best cheap business radio" and one of the results was the 2080d, none of the radios sold on Amazon have any disclaimers, they don't warn explicitly or otherwise that a license may be needed, I mean, I've used these radios my whole life and never even heard of licensing until yesterday. The only reason I think they need it is because they're a school and may get in trouble otherwise.
I do appreciate your help though, I have one of their extras that they gave me for testing, will have to adjust those pldpl settings ans channel numbers and see if it actually works.

Not uncommon. Used to be the only way to get two way radios was from a dealer, and they usually took care of the licensing as part of the package. When it became possible to buy them off the internet, a lot of sellers were more interested in selling radios, and they felt that the complexities of licensing would scare off some, and possibly cut into profits. Ultimately it is up to the user to be properly licensed.

But, it's good you asked, and are taking this information with a positive attitude. There are some that get upset when licensing is mentioned.

The IT department will probably never get it done, every time they promise something, tentatively, it usually ends up on a back burner until they get desperate and hire someone.

One of the challenges. Large agencies/schools/businesses rolled a lot of stuff into IT, but unfortunately most IT guys know zero about two way radios. The common IT tactic is to either bury it and hope management forgets, or attempt to B.S. their way through it.

Two way radio and IT are two different fields. While there is a lot of IP in two way radio now, most IT guys couldn't even tell you which end of the radio to talk into.

Been there, done that, part of my job is making sure my agency does things correctly and doesn't run afoul of the FCC. Every now and then the IT side gets involved and generally screws things up. I've had a few departments that just started randomly buying radios off the internet, and then would complain when they didn't work and want me to fix them. A lot of wasted time and money.

As far as cutting their losses or investigating channels and frequencies, that's just not going to happen, same goes for taking it to a dealer because, same as I, they had a very bad experience with a couple of them, as a matter of fact, they wanted $50 each to program all radios and told them that they must lock them to prevent loss of Motorola intellectual property, which means they can only be services there from then on.

Not sure you're aware of this because I wasn't but, as it turns out, NY has MANY dealers, the smaller ones are shady and are often m competing against each another, it's difficult to do business with them because they lie frequently and use questionable business tactics, the bigger guys are too expensive and their customer service sucks.

This is why my only option is to help them or to do nothing, I'm not going to try and force them to get rid of all their radios just because there are better options out there, they won't ever take me seriously again.

There's no reason the radios they have won't do what they need. They just need some help with the licensing and getting the radios programmed correctly. Sounds like they took the radios out of the box and used them in their factory configuration. What you've discovered is apparently a lot of other people do the same thing. Changing the PL/DPL tones will solve most of your issues.

As for dealers, there are a lot of bad ones out there. They are looking to make a buck, and thats it. Problem is, when you call them this way, their first response is usually to send a sales guy, who will tell you BS about the Motorola IP (total BS) and try to push you into buying new radios. You aren't the first, you won't be the last.

 

[hurricaneoleg]

Sounds like they took the radios out of the box and used them in their factory configuration. What you've discovered is apparently a lot of other people do the same thing. Changing the PL/DPL tones will solve most of your issues.
As for dealers, there are a lot of bad ones out there. They are looking to make a buck, and thats it. Problem is, when you call them this way, their first response is usually to send a sales guy, who will tell you BS about the Motorola IP (total BS) and try to push you into buying new radios. You aren't the first, you won't be the last.

Yeah that's exactly what they did! I explained to them that it's not safe or smart to use a radio in this manner but couldn't do anything about it because I didn't know anything about 2way radios... So I suggested they visit a dealer and they went but came back upset at the constant upsell and the fact that the dealer kept pressuring them to pay him $80 ($50 with educational discount) per radio, knowing they had over 30 radios. But they knew about cloning because, by then, I already knew how easy it was to use the free cps Motorola lets you download, I didn't know how to 'secure' or scramble the transmissions but I knew that it was possible to clone all radios in minutes... Whoever they spoke to left a lasting impression but they were no worse than their IT department, which is just one very, very annoying guy who pays himself compliments and denies the existence of Global Warming, he installs wifi for a living and has no idea what a two-way radio even is. Maybe they have someone else because this one will end up getting them those silly gmrs radios from Walmart.


I mean to ask (in case you know) about stolen radios: when I first posted on this forum and someone suggested my 7550e may be stolen I attempted to check it and couldn't find a single database with more than just a few hundred radios. Do you know how to check something like that? Because, next time, instead of contacting Motorola and googling possible consequences of using a stolen radio I can just request a serial and run it prior to purchasing it, would eliminate a lot of bad feelings.

 

[mmckenna]

Yeah that's exactly what they did! I explained to them that it's not safe or smart to use a radio in this manner but couldn't do anything about it because I didn't know anything about 2way radios... So I suggested they visit a dealer and they went but came back upset at the constant upsell and the fact that the dealer kept pressuring them to pay him $80 ($50 with educational discount) per radio, knowing they had over 30 radios. But they knew about cloning because, by then, I already knew how easy it was to use the free cps Motorola lets you download, I didn't know how to 'secure' or scramble the transmissions but I knew that it was possible to clone all radios in minutes... Whoever they spoke to left a lasting impression but they were no worse than their IT department, which is just one very, very annoying guy who pays himself compliments and denies the existence of Global Warming, he installs wifi for a living and has no idea what a two-way radio even is. Maybe they have someone else because this one will end up getting them those silly gmrs radios from Walmart.

$80/radio, or even $50 a radio is way too much for programming. Like you discovered, cloning the radios is easy. Even if you went in and manually programmed each one, you could crank most of them out in 2 hours or less.
The dealer was trying to take advantage of the school.

I mean to ask (in case you know) about stolen radios: when I first posted on this forum and someone suggested my 7550e may be stolen I attempted to check it and couldn't find a single database with more than just a few hundred radios. Do you know how to check something like that? Because, next time, instead of contacting Motorola and googling possible consequences of using a stolen radio I can just request a serial and run it prior to purchasing it, would eliminate a lot of bad feelings.

This is the only stolen Motorola radio database I know of:

Stolen Radio Database - The Genesis Group

Stolen Radio Database Genesis maintains this Global Stolen Radio Database as a service to radio owners. This service enables users to: Enter information about a radio that has been stolen. Each entry builds the database. Search the database for information on a specific radio. Submit Updates If...

genesisworld.com

If you are concerned that it was stolen, the best thing you can do is contact your local PD and have them run the serial number. They can tell if it was reported stolen.

 

[hurricaneoleg]

I'm not posting here anymore, it's pointless, I will only get more suggestions to toss my radio.

 

[mmckenna]

I'm not posting here anymore, it's pointless, I will only get more suggestions to toss my radio.

Who's telling you to toss your radios? I think I missed something...

 

[hurricaneoleg]

Who's telling you to toss your radios? I think I missed something...

Haha definitely not you, I replied to the wrong thread, my bad.

 

[hurricaneoleg]

That comment was also deleted since. The notifications come through but my phone browser doesn't change the page, it's weird and causes these types of situations and confusion.

I do appreciate your help though, just so we're clear: that comment wasn't meant for you and not even for this thread. Samsung Internet Browser is a bit weird, it has an issue when used in conjunction with a few adblockers: instead of taking me to a different page on this forum it stays on the same one and my replies make no sense, since it quotes someone totally different. I had to delete many and got locked out of one of the forums because it looked as if I was trying to talk about something completely different.

 

[ecps92]

Page 7 of the manual talks about the required license

https://mans.io/files/viewer/1181242/9

Most likely also was listed on the box

But we move on....

 

[hurricaneoleg]

Page 7 of the manual talks about the required license

https://mans.io/files/viewer/1181242/9

Most likely also was listed on the box

But we move on....

Thank you.
I'm looking into this now, may not actually do it because, after speaking with my former boss, he is a chief engineer at a Hampton Inn hotel and we used like 15 radios when I worked there, eve they didn't get a license, I know there may be legal ramifications but noone I know has a license because it's a pain in the neck to get time-wise. I will apply a reasonable amount of effort to obtaining one, just saying, if it's as easy as getting a driver's license in Brooklyn i may give up and use it the same way everybody else does: unlicensed.