Dallas 7 SEVEN Alarm Fire and what did I hear?

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avflyguy

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Plano, TX
Tollway @ I-190

Dallas F/R last night (and still today) working what is/was a 7 alarm fire. I was < 1 mile away and could not hear anything! Absolutely nothing on two different scanners.

So I jump in the car and find a back way in where I'm like 200 feet away from Command Vehicle and BC04's Surburban listening on theirs all the while trying like crazy to scan for them. Then resorted to hand programming in just 3 frequencies, and still ZILCH. One hell of a fire and more apparatus than I've ever seen anywhere.

Anyway, I used to always be able to hear DFR and now (obviously) hit or miss or nothing at all.

Have spent part of today hand programming Pro97 (as I'm on 9th floor office looking over at it out my window less than 2 1/2 miles away and still can't hear anything! Zero - Zilch.

*ARGH*




Here's what all was/is STILL out as of 3PM...Tuesday

BC01 OVERHAUL 0 4855 Gramercy Oaks Dr PEAR RIDGE DR/NOT FOUND 2009219368
BC05 OVERHAUL 0 4855 Gramercy Oaks Dr PEAR RIDGE DR/NOT FOUND 2009219368
BC08 OVERHAUL 0 4855 Gramercy Oaks Dr PEAR RIDGE DR/NOT FOUND 2009219368
EN04 OVERHAUL 0 4855 Gramercy Oaks Dr PEAR RIDGE DR/NOT FOUND 2009219368
EN05 OVERHAUL 0 4855 Gramercy Oaks Dr PEAR RIDGE DR/NOT FOUND 2009219368
EN06 OVERHAUL 0 4855 Gramercy Oaks Dr PEAR RIDGE DR/NOT FOUND 2009219368
EN08 OVERHAUL 0 4855 Gramercy Oaks Dr PEAR RIDGE DR/NOT FOUND 2009219368
EN10 OVERHAUL 0 4855 Gramercy Oaks Dr PEAR RIDGE DR/NOT FOUND 2009219368
EN11 OVERHAUL 0 4855 Gramercy Oaks Dr PEAR RIDGE DR/NOT FOUND 2009219368
EN13 OVERHAUL 0 4855 Gramercy Oaks Dr PEAR RIDGE DR/NOT FOUND 2009219368
EN18 OVERHAUL 0 4855 Gramercy Oaks Dr PEAR RIDGE DR/NOT FOUND 2009219368
EN20 OVERHAUL 0 4855 Gramercy Oaks Dr PEAR RIDGE DR/NOT FOUND 2009219368
EN22 OVERHAUL 0 4855 Gramercy Oaks Dr PEAR RIDGE DR/NOT FOUND 2009219368
EN23 OVERHAUL 0 4855 Gramercy Oaks Dr PEAR RIDGE DR/NOT FOUND 2009219368
EN25 OVERHAUL 0 4855 Gramercy Oaks Dr PEAR RIDGE DR/NOT FOUND 2009219368
EN29 OVERHAUL 0 4855 Gramercy Oaks Dr PEAR RIDGE DR/NOT FOUND 2009219368
EN30 OVERHAUL 0 4855 Gramercy Oaks Dr PEAR RIDGE DR/NOT FOUND 2009219368
EN31 OVERHAUL 0 4855 Gramercy Oaks Dr PEAR RIDGE DR/NOT FOUND 2009219368
EN33 OVERHAUL 0 4855 Gramercy Oaks Dr PEAR RIDGE DR/NOT FOUND 2009219368
EN34 OVERHAUL 0 4855 Gramercy Oaks Dr PEAR RIDGE DR/NOT FOUND 2009219368
EN36 OVERHAUL 0 4855 Gramercy Oaks Dr PEAR RIDGE DR/NOT FOUND 2009219368
EN37 OVERHAUL 0 4855 Gramercy Oaks Dr PEAR RIDGE DR/NOT FOUND 2009219368
EN39 OVERHAUL 0 4855 Gramercy Oaks Dr PEAR RIDGE DR/NOT FOUND 2009219368
EN41 OVERHAUL 0 4855 Gramercy Oaks Dr PEAR RIDGE DR/NOT FOUND 2009219368
EN45 OVERHAUL 0 4855 Gramercy Oaks Dr PEAR RIDGE DR/NOT FOUND 2009219368
EN47 OVERHAUL 0 4855 Gramercy Oaks Dr PEAR RIDGE DR/NOT FOUND 2009219368
EN48 OVERHAUL 0 4855 Gramercy Oaks Dr PEAR RIDGE DR/NOT FOUND 2009219368
EN49 OVERHAUL 0 4855 Gramercy Oaks Dr PEAR RIDGE DR/NOT FOUND 2009219368
EN51 OVERHAUL 0 4855 Gramercy Oaks Dr PEAR RIDGE DR/NOT FOUND 2009219368
EN52 OVERHAUL 0 4855 Gramercy Oaks Dr PEAR RIDGE DR/NOT FOUND 2009219368
EN54 OVERHAUL 0 4855 Gramercy Oaks Dr PEAR RIDGE DR/NOT FOUND 2009219368
EN55 OVERHAUL 0 4855 Gramercy Oaks Dr PEAR RIDGE DR/NOT FOUND 2009219368
EN57 OVERHAUL 0 4855 Gramercy Oaks Dr PEAR RIDGE DR/NOT FOUND 2009219368
RE17 OVERHAUL 0 4855 Gramercy Oaks Dr PEAR RIDGE DR/NOT FOUND 2009219368
RE35 OVERHAUL 0 4855 Gramercy Oaks Dr PEAR RIDGE DR/NOT FOUND 2009219368
RE45 OVERHAUL 0 4855 Gramercy Oaks Dr PEAR RIDGE DR/NOT FOUND 2009219368
RE57 OVERHAUL 0 4855 Gramercy Oaks Dr PEAR RIDGE DR/NOT FOUND 2009219368
TR04 OVERHAUL 0 4855 Gramercy Oaks Dr PEAR RIDGE DR/NOT FOUND 2009219368
TR17 OVERHAUL 0 4855 Gramercy Oaks Dr PEAR RIDGE DR/NOT FOUND 2009219368
TR23 OVERHAUL 0 4855 Gramercy Oaks Dr PEAR RIDGE DR/NOT FOUND 2009219368
TR25 OVERHAUL 0 4855 Gramercy Oaks Dr PEAR RIDGE DR/NOT FOUND 2009219368
TR26 OVERHAUL 0 4855 Gramercy Oaks Dr PEAR RIDGE DR/NOT FOUND 2009219368
TR34 OVERHAUL 0 4855 Gramercy Oaks Dr PEAR RIDGE DR/NOT FOUND 2009219368
TR36 OVERHAUL 0 4855 Gramercy Oaks Dr PEAR RIDGE DR/NOT FOUND 2009219368
TR39 OVERHAUL 0 4855 Gramercy Oaks Dr PEAR RIDGE DR/NOT FOUND 2009219368
TR43 OVERHAUL 0 4855 Gramercy Oaks Dr PEAR RIDGE DR/NOT FOUND 2009219368
TR53 OVERHAUL 0 4855 Gramercy Oaks Dr PEAR RIDGE DR/NOT FOUND 2009219368
600 99 - Structure Fire Working 7 4855 Gramercy Oaks Dr PEAR RIDGE DR/NOT FOUND 2009219181
684 99 - Structure Fire Working 4 4855 Gramercy Oaks Dr PEAR RIDGE DR/NOT FOUND 2009219181
685 99 - Structure Fire Working 2 4855 Gramercy Oaks Dr PEAR RIDGE DR/NOT FOUND 2009219181
780 99 - Structure Fire Working 3 4855 Gramercy Oaks Dr PEAR RIDGE DR/NOT FOUND 2009219181
781 99 - Structure Fire Working 7 4855 Gramercy Oaks Dr PEAR RIDGE DR/NOT FOUND 2009219181
782 99 - Structure Fire Working 2 4855 Gramercy Oaks Dr PEAR RIDGE DR/NOT FOUND 2009219181
783 99 - Structure Fire Working 7 4855 Gramercy Oaks Dr PEAR RIDGE DR/NOT FOUND 2009219181
784 99 - Structure Fire Working 7 4855 Gramercy Oaks Dr PEAR RIDGE DR/NOT FOUND 2009219181
800 99 - Structure Fire Working 5 4855 Gramercy Oaks Dr PEAR RIDGE DR/NOT FOUND 2009219181
801 99 - Structure Fire Working 5 4855 Gramercy Oaks Dr PEAR RIDGE DR/NOT FOUND 2009219181
802 99 - Structure Fire Working 6 4855 Gramercy Oaks Dr PEAR RIDGE DR/NOT FOUND 2009219181
803 99 - Structure Fire Working 4 4855 Gramercy Oaks Dr PEAR RIDGE DR/NOT FOUND 2009219181
805 99 - Structure Fire Working 4 4855 Gramercy Oaks Dr PEAR RIDGE DR/NOT FOUND 2009219181
806 99 - Structure Fire Working 2 4855 Gramercy Oaks Dr PEAR RIDGE DR/NOT FOUND 2009219181
807 99 - Structure Fire Working 2 4855 Gramercy Oaks Dr PEAR RIDGE DR/NOT FOUND 2009219181
812 99 - Structure Fire Working 5 4855 Gramercy Oaks Dr PEAR RIDGE DR/NOT FOUND 2009219181
825 99 - Structure Fire Working 3 4855 Gramercy Oaks Dr PEAR RIDGE DR/NOT FOUND 2009219181
826 99 - Structure Fire Working 6 4855 Gramercy Oaks Dr PEAR RIDGE DR/NOT FOUND 2009219181
829 99 - Structure Fire Working 2 4855 Gramercy Oaks Dr PEAR RIDGE DR/NOT FOUND 2009219181
885 99 - Structure Fire Working 3 4855 Gramercy Oaks Dr PEAR RIDGE DR/NOT FOUND 2009219181
896 99 - Structure Fire Working 2 4855 Gramercy Oaks Dr PEAR RIDGE DR/NOT FOUND 2009219181
BC02 99 - Structure Fire Working 1 4855 Gramercy Oaks Dr PEAR RIDGE DR/NOT FOUND 2009219181
BC02 99 - Structure Fire Working 7 4855 Gramercy Oaks Dr PEAR RIDGE DR/NOT FOUND 2009219181
BC03 99 - Structure Fire Working 2 4855 Gramercy Oaks Dr PEAR RIDGE DR/NOT FOUND 2009219181
BC04 99 - Structure Fire Working 2 4855 Gramercy Oaks Dr PEAR RIDGE DR/NOT FOUND 2009219181
BC06 99 - Structure Fire Working 3 4855 Gramercy Oaks Dr PEAR RIDGE DR/NOT FOUND 2009219181
BC07 99 - Structure Fire Working 1 4855 Gramercy Oaks Dr PEAR RIDGE DR/NOT FOUND 2009219181
EN01 99 - Structure Fire Working 7 4855 Gramercy Oaks Dr PEAR RIDGE DR/NOT FOUND 2009219181
EN02 99 - Structure Fire Working 3 4855 Gramercy Oaks Dr PEAR RIDGE DR/NOT FOUND 2009219181
EN07 99 - Structure Fire Working 1 4855 Gramercy Oaks Dr PEAR RIDGE DR/NOT FOUND 2009219181
EN08 99 - Structure Fire Working 7 4855 Gramercy Oaks Dr PEAR RIDGE DR/NOT FOUND 2009219181
EN10 99 - Structure Fire Working 1 4855 Gramercy Oaks Dr PEAR RIDGE DR/NOT FOUND 2009219181
EN11 99 - Structure Fire Working 3 4855 Gramercy Oaks Dr PEAR RIDGE DR/NOT FOUND 2009219181
EN13 99 - Structure Fire Working 1 4855 Gramercy Oaks Dr PEAR RIDGE DR/NOT FOUND 2009219181
EN17 99 - Structure Fire Working 6 4855 Gramercy Oaks Dr PEAR RIDGE DR/NOT FOUND 2009219181
EN20 99 - Structure Fire Working 2 4855 Gramercy Oaks Dr PEAR RIDGE DR/NOT FOUND 2009219181
EN22 99 - Structure Fire Working 4 4855 Gramercy Oaks Dr PEAR RIDGE DR/NOT FOUND 2009219181
EN27 99 - Structure Fire Working 4 4855 Gramercy Oaks Dr PEAR RIDGE DR/NOT FOUND 2009219181
EN28 99 - Structure Fire Working 2 4855 Gramercy Oaks Dr PEAR RIDGE DR/NOT FOUND 2009219181
EN28 99 - Structure Fire Working 7 4855 Gramercy Oaks Dr PEAR RIDGE DR/NOT FOUND 2009219181
EN30 99 - Structure Fire Working 4 4855 Gramercy Oaks Dr PEAR RIDGE DR/NOT FOUND 2009219181
EN31 99 - Structure Fire Working 7 4855 Gramercy Oaks Dr PEAR RIDGE DR/NOT FOUND 2009219181
EN35 99 - Structure Fire Working 6 4855 Gramercy Oaks Dr PEAR RIDGE DR/NOT FOUND 2009219181
EN36 99 - Structure Fire Working 5 4855 Gramercy Oaks Dr PEAR RIDGE DR/NOT FOUND 2009219181
EN37 99 - Structure Fire Working 3 4855 Gramercy Oaks Dr PEAR RIDGE DR/NOT FOUND 2009219181
EN39 99 - Structure Fire Working 5 4855 Gramercy Oaks Dr PEAR RIDGE DR/NOT FOUND 2009219181
EN41 99 - Structure Fire Working 5 4855 Gramercy Oaks Dr PEAR RIDGE DR/NOT FOUND 2009219181
EN43 99 - Structure Fire Working 7 4855 Gramercy Oaks Dr PEAR RIDGE DR/NOT FOUND 2009219181
EN44 99 - Structure Fire Working 7 4855 Gramercy Oaks Dr PEAR RIDGE DR/NOT FOUND 2009219181
EN53 99 - Structure Fire Working 7 4855 Gramercy Oaks Dr PEAR RIDGE DR/NOT FOUND 2009219181
EN56 99 - Structure Fire Working 2 4855 Gramercy Oaks Dr PEAR RIDGE DR/NOT FOUND 2009219181
EN57 99 - Structure Fire Working 6 4855 Gramercy Oaks Dr PEAR RIDGE DR/NOT FOUND 2009219181
RE07 99 - Structure Fire Working 2 4855 Gramercy Oaks Dr PEAR RIDGE DR/NOT FOUND 2009219181
RE07 99 - Structure Fire Working 7 4855 Gramercy Oaks Dr PEAR RIDGE DR/NOT FOUND 2009219181
RE08 99 - Structure Fire Working 7 4855 Gramercy Oaks Dr PEAR RIDGE DR/NOT FOUND 2009219181
RE10 99 - Structure Fire Working 1 4855 Gramercy Oaks Dr PEAR RIDGE DR/NOT FOUND 2009219181
RE15 99 - Structure Fire Working 6 4855 Gramercy Oaks Dr PEAR RIDGE DR/NOT FOUND 2009219181
RE17 99 - Structure Fire Working 7 4855 Gramercy Oaks Dr PEAR RIDGE DR/NOT FOUND 2009219181
RE19 99 - Structure Fire Working 3 4855 Gramercy Oaks Dr PEAR RIDGE DR/NOT FOUND 2009219181
RE20 99 - Structure Fire Working 7 4855 Gramercy Oaks Dr PEAR RIDGE DR/NOT FOUND 2009219181
RE22 99 - Structure Fire Working 6 4855 Gramercy Oaks Dr PEAR RIDGE DR/NOT FOUND 2009219181
RE28 99 - Structure Fire Working 7 4855 Gramercy Oaks Dr PEAR RIDGE DR/NOT FOUND 2009219181
RE30 99 - Structure Fire Working 7 4855 Gramercy Oaks Dr PEAR RIDGE DR/NOT FOUND 2009219181
RE35 99 - Structure Fire Working 7 4855 Gramercy Oaks Dr PEAR RIDGE DR/NOT FOUND 2009219181
RE41 99 - Structure Fire Working 6 4855 Gramercy Oaks Dr PEAR RIDGE DR/NOT FOUND 2009219181
RE45 99 - Structure Fire Working 7 4855 Gramercy Oaks Dr PEAR RIDGE DR/NOT FOUND 2009219181
RE57 99 - Structure Fire Working 7 4855 Gramercy Oaks Dr PEAR RIDGE DR/NOT FOUND 2009219181
TR07 99 - Structure Fire Working 1 4855 Gramercy Oaks Dr PEAR RIDGE DR/NOT FOUND 2009219181
TR11 99 - Structure Fire Working 4 4855 Gramercy Oaks Dr PEAR RIDGE DR/NOT FOUND 2009219181
TR15 99 - Structure Fire Working 6 4855 Gramercy Oaks Dr PEAR RIDGE DR/NOT FOUND 2009219181
TR19 99 - Structure Fire Working 3 4855 Gramercy Oaks Dr PEAR RIDGE DR/NOT FOUND 2009219181
TR20 99 - Structure Fire Working 1 4855 Gramercy Oaks Dr PEAR RIDGE DR/NOT FOUND 2009219181
TR34 99 - Structure Fire Working 7 4855 Gramercy Oaks Dr PEAR RIDGE DR/NOT FOUND 2009219181
TR37 99 - Structure Fire Working 3 4855 Gramercy Oaks Dr PEAR RIDGE DR/NOT FOUND 2009219181
TR41 99 - Structure Fire Working 2 4855 Gramercy Oaks Dr PEAR RIDGE DR/NOT FOUND 2009219181
TR57 99 - Structure Fire Working 2 4855 Gramercy Oaks Dr PEAR RIDGE DR/NOT FOUND 2009219181
US15 99 - Structure Fire Working 6 4855 Gramercy Oaks Dr PEAR RIDGE DR/NOT FOUND 2009219181
US19 99 - Structure Fire Working 3 4855 Gramercy Oaks Dr PEAR RIDGE DR/NOT FOUND 2009219181
 
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rdale

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Did you program the freq's from the other thread on this fire?

Did you use a closecall-type setup?
 

avflyguy

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Joined
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Messages
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Location
Plano, TX
This is an old (but reliable) analog non-trunking scanner I've used for years. I've been listening to DFR on it for well over 20 years.



And this is the antenna I am using on a 12ft pole on top of a 2 story house strapped to the chimney with 10 ga grounding wire by the telephone and elec service ground rod


.
.
Roughly I'm here to there:
.

.

.
The frequencies I've used for the old RS scanner manually entered years ago manually (no other way to do it) were
DFD F00 460.575 DISPATCH
DFD F01 453.875 FIRE RESPONSE
DFD F02 453.900 MICU RESPONSE
DFD F03 451.150 FIREGROUND 1
DFD F04 453.675 ADMIN
DFD F05 463.000 - HOSP CH1
DFD F06 463.025 - HOSP CH2
DFD F07 463.075 - HOSP CH3
DFD F08 463.125 - HOSP CH4
DFD F09 460.6125 TRAINING
DFD F10 460.6375 SPECIAL EVENTS
DFD F11 465.6125 FIREGROUND STAGING (simplex)
DFD F12 465.6375 FIREGROUND OPS (simplex)
ZONE 1 453.700 REPEATER (Forest @ Preston)
ZONE 2 453.650 REPEATER (Garland @ NW Hwy)
ZONE 3 453.850 REPEATER (DPD SW Station)

Now, on my Pro97, I imported those from the RR Database via computer
.
.

So, there you have it.... I am now hearing (faintly) on 465.6375 (Fireground Op's) on the old scanner only - nothing on the pro97.

Ideas?
 

letarotor

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Messages
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Location
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The lack of reception you received of Fireground comms is not uncommon and illustrates why repeaters are crucial to any communications system. I spend a lot of time at Dallas Executive Airport and was disappaointed one day when I couldn't hear fireground comms at a fire down on Chaucer St, just south of Camp Wisdom on the east side of Highway 67. I was probably just as far away from that fire as you were from the 7-alarm yesterday. I've found you almost have to be right at the scene in order to hear the DFR handhelds at all. Scanners just don't pick up as good as real radios, and I've found the PRO-97/2055 is deplorable on VHF without an external antenna.
 

rdale

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The lack of reception you received of Fireground comms is not uncommon and illustrates why repeaters are crucial to any communications system.
I'm not sure I follow... You are saying repeaters are critical, even though the firefighters used the fireground channel direct with no issues? It makes less sense to force everyone to a repeater when you can see the person you're talking to.
 

n5ims

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Messages
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One other thing that a repeater system would do in increase the quantity of channels required by DFD. DFD channels 9 & 11 and 10 & 12 appear to have originally been repeater pairs that were made into simplex channels. They did keep one repeated fireground channel (ch 4) when they need a wider coverage area for their fireground communications.

Currently, they are able to use the same simplex fire ground channel on multiple concurrent incidents, assuming that they're in different parts of the city, since the expected range of the simplex channel (portable to command or other portable) is only a mile or so.
 
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I'm not sure I follow... You are saying repeaters are critical, even though the firefighters used the fireground channel direct with no issues? It makes less sense to force everyone to a repeater when you can see the person you're talking to.
There was an incident in which a firefighter was killed a few years back, the Chief's wanted to hear the fire ground traffic for the investigation and found that there was no recording. They did institute a policy for turning on a repeater in the back of the IC's battalion vehicle, but it was never really used, likely because the IC had more important things to do upon arriving at a fire than to rush to the back of his car and turn on a repeater. This would have repeated channel 12 to the city's TRS for recording purposes.

Aside from that it really makes no sense to have a fire ground on a repeater, especially in systems where one channel is used for every fire ground. Engine 56 (operating at a fire up north) might hear a transmission for engine 6 (operating at a fire down south) to shut down a hand line and think it was meant for them, turn off the hand line while crews are inside and get someone killed. Rather extreme example of course, but it is precisely why channel 12 is not repeated.
 

SCPD

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Nope, The TRS wasn't used either on this fire. They rarely use the TRS fireground channel. From Experience, 465.6375 PL: 173.8 is a bugger to hear. I think that is actually programed down to 1 or 2 watts. I've been within a mile or so of a working Fire and had to open the squelch completely to hear anything.

I didn't try to listen to any of the back-up repeaters, but there is a possibility those could have been used.

There was a deal a few days prior when and Engine was requesting to go to Ch-3 fireground and the Batt Commander used 12 instead. And I believe it was B-4 on that too.

Nope, Channels 9, 10, 11 & 12 were always licensed Simplex. just odd that they came as a perfect pair. Another example of that is the Old Gunter PD UHF pair. who knows.

I have that same antenna on an Older Scanner. and I have no problems pulling in signals. So I doubt your equipment is flawed either. Did anyone scan U-CALL or U-TAC on this? Good Possibility they used Inter-Op rather than tying up their own channels.
 
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