AviAdelman
Member
UPDATE 11am - The analog channels are slowly getting active chatter again. Still waiting to hear about digital channels.
Dallas City Local Government
- Thread starter junior71
- Start date
OK Avi, let me Blow your mind a little bit. I am attaching a screenshot from Unitrunker 2. In it you can see a snipit of the channels that are active on the Dallas Layer 1 site of the NTIRN system. As you can see the DPD is very active on NTIRN, however that does not mean they won't keep the analogue sites up for a little while longer. The Column on the right is shows the active talkgroups, the blank columns to the left can be filled in with Unit assigned to the radio that is transmitting, when and if known.
The BCD325P2 can work on the NTIRN system, it just might take some twisting and turning, move it here move it there. Somedays maybe better than others. If your friend can find a sweet spot, it may miss some transmissions but still capture the majority.
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AviAdelman
Member
I appreciate this information.
FWIW I finally got my SDS100 up and running (just don't ask me how)
And my friend reports her scanner is working on the SW NTIRN channel - just waiting for DPD to finish tweaking the modulation so it sounds a little more normal.
I'm using my 325P2 on NTIRN, though it does miss some traffic. As has been posted multiple times in the past, simulcast distortion is extremely location specific. By "friend in SW" I presume you mean they are located in part of the Southwest Patrol Division. (I am as well.) If close enough to the transmit site on West Wheatland Rd, that strong signal may neutralize out of sync signals from the other towers. Experiment with antennas if you're having a problem. When dealing with simulcast problems, "less" antenna is often better that a 'more sensitive' antenna.
NO. My posting was regarding the UHF channels not patched and no activity. My SDS100 was passing normal traffic on the NTIRN channels on site 3-1 I am confident the reason you are not hearing activity on your scanner is simulcast distortion.ALL DPD channels - old (analog) and new (digital) are completely silent. I have confirmed this with another crimewatcher in SW (I am in Central).
If I read what you are saying correctly (newbie alert!), the repeater is not repeating?? That would not explain why NTIRN is silent.
My SDS 100 arrives in a few hours. I may not even open the box until I am sure DPD is on the air again.
I have sent emails to DPD PIO, and some City officials who have the misfortune of being on my email list, as well as media folks on the DPD's media list. One media person told me City Hall may be offline for Kunkle's funeral.
When you get your SDS100 you need to do some research (search) the uniden forum for tips on the SDS100. The two important things you need to do to make the unit work better is replace the stock antenna and learn how to adjust filters. Those 2 things made a huge difference in my SDS100.
AviAdelman
Member
Well, ain't this funny.
The Dallas Sheriff's Office replied to my request for the TGID list.
"This email is to notify you that no records exist. Your request has been closed."
An hour later, the District Attorney's office, which handles open records requests for the County, replied.
They have filed a request with the TX Attorney General, to wit:
Through the Civil Division of the Dallas County Criminal District Attorney’s Office, the County timely requests a decision from your Office.
Dallas County seeks your opinion regarding the disclosure of some of the requested information that may be subject to one or more of the exceptions set forth in §418.179 of the Texas Public Information Act, including the confidentiality provisions contained in other applicable constitutional or statutory provisions, laws, or judicial decisions.
Unbelievable! The AG has 45 days to reply, but I will file a rebuttal to their denial in the next few days.
So much fun, so little time.
alexkjohnson
Member
- Joined
- Jan 14, 2022
- Messages
- 9
My opinion... would recommended treading lightly here. The full TGID list is maintained and updated for the NTIRN Layer 1 and 2 systems here on this site. Not sure what additional info you're seeking, but drawing more attention to the fact that the public can and does listen to their shiny new P25 system might just encourage them to bring down the big "E" hammer. Then what?
To which I would add this:
Reading the minutes of the county Commissioner’s Court meetings, when discussing whether or not the county would join the city in changing to a new system, comments from one of the attendees, from the Sheriff’s Office, stated that a big advantage of making the change was that they could add encryption.
Fortunately, for scanner owners, so far encryption, at least on the city’s side, has been only on a few tactical or investigative talkgroups.
Well thanks for opening the suggestions door for agencies to consider encryption I don't understand what would make someone do this !!
alexkjohnson
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Exactly. This is just poking the sleeping bear with a stick. There is no benefit here, only downside for all of us.
AviAdelman
Member
Wow, talking about waking up a sleeping bear (or whatever that saying is).
Let me start by saying my reply below is based on First Amendment issues, not geeky tech issues.
If a department is adding encryption, it’s not because a bunch of people with scanners are listening. Think of it as new shiny things hanging on a tree, paid for by federal funds. They will encrypt it no matter what. There’s a big fight in NYC and other places re media access to encrypted channels, and now that the lawyers are involved, it will get messy.
NYPD encryption of police radios will soon go citywide
In regards to the data already on RadioReference.com, if any gov’t entity were to have the ----s to ask the data to come down, that is an established First Amendment violation. Yeah, some little town with two squad cars and not a lawyer in the office might try, but it’s not going to end well.
As to Dallas County asking the TX Atty General for a ruling – Meh, nothing new here. They reject every request for information first, drag it to the AG, wait 45 days and end up releasing most of the data. While I don’t have the specific cites they are basing this request on, the ones indirectly referenced do not cover this kind of information.
To be honest, the fact this data is already out there for 1000’s of other LEO agencies around the country is not a good look for the county.
As the requestor, I have the right to file a reply with the TX AG, citing whatever information I have that supports the release of this document. I am already consulting with local attorneys on how to frame this reply.
AviAdelman
Member
Shoot, I am 67 years old. Not a child.
And to borrow a phrase from my kids - Daddy's got "street cred" on First Amendment issues.
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And to borrow a phrase from my kids - Daddy's got "street cred" on First Amendment issues.
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alexkjohnson
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Nobody here is arguing about your rights. Yes, you are well within your rights to make the formal requests, go through the FOIA processes, etc. All good and I actually applaud you for knowing your rights better than probably 99.9% of the population.Shoot, I am 67 years old. Not a child.
And to borrow a phrase from my kids - Daddy's got "street cred" on First Amendment issues.
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My main comment is that these actions also draw attention to technical details of a system that by all accounts is managed and funded by a very non-technical crowd in local government. The folks in the community on here have gone to great lengths to painstakingly discover, document, report on, and refine access to open radio transmissions and make them available to the general public. Once that fact becomes more widely known by those who hold the keys to the kingdom, it's all too easy for them to opt for the big "E" and call it a day.... and then everything we have here basically ceases to exist. Who wins?
AviAdelman
Member
My simple short answer, as noted above:
They are going to encrypt no matter what we (as a community of scanner people, or the media, or anyone else) do, say, complain, pontificate, yell, scream etc. It does not cost any money to do that.
Here's my why: I have spoken to a number of Dallas cops. Not only was their training almost non-existent (30 minutes!), but the system behind the radios was damaged in the ransomware hack. That's why they are still using the analog channels as well as the digital stuff.
They were not informed as to which channels are being used for what incidents, and under what circumstances. For example: On Saturday, three perps in a shooting were holed up in an apartment in east Dallas. All comms were on the primary DPD Central comm, when in theory it should have moved to an Incident Command channel. It was just easier to stay on the primary comm, I was told by a high-ranking officer on the scene.
Old habits are gonna take a long time to forget.
Not going to jump into this argument on encryption. But a note on the radio protocol you brought up. The dispatchers should be trained to patch the incident to another channel. That way the officers at scene are not fumbling with radios. Then they all slowly migrate to the appropriate channel. That is pretty much how it gets done in Fort Worth.
Ill take it a step further and say that the feed providers are the biggest issue. In the past, you had to buy a scanner. This seeming easy task was too hard for the common criminal to achieve. Now any yahoo with a cell phone can listen with no skin in the game. Shut down the feeds before everything goes encrypted.
AviAdelman
Member
UPDATE 6pm
I just spoke to a high-level person at the County DA’s office (who shall for the moment in this email remain unnamed, but he’s big 😊 )
He told me (in summary):
After the City of Dallas got hit with a ransomware attack, which delayed - and is still impacting - the deployment of Project 25 comms, County IT guys /gals said, OH HELL we’re in trouble.
They are now in the process of ENCRYPTING ALL Dallas County comms, which will take about 30 to 60 days.
Only after it’s all encrypted will they release the TGID list that I asked for a few weeks ago (and they are now asking the AG to block access to).
Of course, that’s gonna leave a lot of dead air out there, and probably a bunch of useless scanners (at least on the Dallas County level).
Personally, I am staying with Dallas Police / Fire stuff, which supposedly won’t be encrypted on the basic channels (as per an email earlier this year from an Assistant City Manager)
And of course, this now means we will be getting into a First Amendment fight – ergo, how does the media get access to these comms?
I am preparing my rebuttal to the DA letter to the AG, but it’s kinda moot for now. I need to regroup and figure out the next steps.
I just spoke to a high-level person at the County DA’s office (who shall for the moment in this email remain unnamed, but he’s big 😊 )
He told me (in summary):
After the City of Dallas got hit with a ransomware attack, which delayed - and is still impacting - the deployment of Project 25 comms, County IT guys /gals said, OH HELL we’re in trouble.
They are now in the process of ENCRYPTING ALL Dallas County comms, which will take about 30 to 60 days.
Only after it’s all encrypted will they release the TGID list that I asked for a few weeks ago (and they are now asking the AG to block access to).
Of course, that’s gonna leave a lot of dead air out there, and probably a bunch of useless scanners (at least on the Dallas County level).
Personally, I am staying with Dallas Police / Fire stuff, which supposedly won’t be encrypted on the basic channels (as per an email earlier this year from an Assistant City Manager)
And of course, this now means we will be getting into a First Amendment fight – ergo, how does the media get access to these comms?
I am preparing my rebuttal to the DA letter to the AG, but it’s kinda moot for now. I need to regroup and figure out the next steps.
AviAdelman
Member
A local reporter just sent me this Dallas Police department memo, issued last week, regarding the new Project 25 system.
Pull quote
As was the case with the prior public safety radio system, all primary dispatch channels on the new P25 system are unencrypted and are publicly available transmitted radio channels. This has not changed. In the transition to the new system, the City of Dallas retained the same channel structure and channel lineup, and these channels continue to be accessible to the public, just in a digital format and from a digital system. Those who would like to listen to the accessible radio channels should seek consultation from a radio professional.
Pull quote
As was the case with the prior public safety radio system, all primary dispatch channels on the new P25 system are unencrypted and are publicly available transmitted radio channels. This has not changed. In the transition to the new system, the City of Dallas retained the same channel structure and channel lineup, and these channels continue to be accessible to the public, just in a digital format and from a digital system. Those who would like to listen to the accessible radio channels should seek consultation from a radio professional.
In Houston the PD wastes no time switching to an encrypted tac channel during a chase or the scene of a crime they got it nailed down ! You won't hear anything
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