Delaware TRS Going Total Encription

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bivensbl

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Ran into a guy from the State Communications Office. He informed me that by mid-2007 at the latest that all talkgroups will be encripted. They may leave the main dispatch channels open, but all EMS and Police talkgroups will be encripted. He said that because too much personal info was being broadcast over the talkgroups that the State Legislature passed a bill to close the system. Anyone else heard anything about this?

K3WCO
Dover
 

ctrabs74

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bivensbl said:
Ran into a guy from the State Communications Office. He informed me that by mid-2007 at the latest that all talkgroups will be encripted. They may leave the main dispatch channels open, but all EMS and Police talkgroups will be encripted. He said that because too much personal info was being broadcast over the talkgroups that the State Legislature passed a bill to close the system. Anyone else heard anything about this?
Didn't find any recent bills about encrypting any or all talkgroups on the state's website. I hope that maybe your contact gave you some bad information, because that would be a huge mistake to close off the entire system (or large chunks of it at least). The last thing Delaware needs is a reputation as a "secret state" that's worse than Florida.

If they're that concerned about too much personal info going over the public airwaves, then there's this neat little concept called a cell phone.
 

h8tdigitalradio

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Hello,

Very little if any personal info is heard over the State System. Public Service numbers are usually sent over secure channels. The LEO's make good use of CAD technology for access to DELJIS, NCIC or other databases.

There was an editorial in the News Journal in reference to Homeland Security funding being cut for interoperability in communications. The State has spent tons of $$$ for encryption including the Fireboard. So much for interops if everything is encrypted. It is now a wait and see approach.

73

Dave AKA The Tripzter
 

K3GI

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Having recently purchased a digital capable scanner and having been "in the dark" since the state went digital, it does seem to me that the users of the public safety system are not quite as discreet about sensitive information as they had been pre-digital. This is just an impression; I might be completely wrong about this. Also this is not to say they are putting out personal information indiscriminately. However, as previous posters pointed out there is a solution to keeping sensitive inforrmation "off the air."

In the "high band" days some of the municipal PDs were a little unprofessional with their personal "chit chat" on their own frequencies. Those same departments are still at it on the new system.

Lee, K3GI
 

maansman

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Boy...I hope it's just a rumor. In San Antonio, when I first moved there from NY in 2001, they were trunk....then there was talk of them going to an all EDACS Pro Voice system, which was digital, and no scanner could monitor them...after that annoucement, everybody thought it was crap....well, 2-3 years of testing, it went live in 2004. If you did not have a police or fire radio, you were completly in the dark. It's sucked. It still does. Even the news media had to buy police radios from the county.....if you go to the Texas forum here, you will see that nobody can monitor police, ems, or fire.....and Uniden won't be making any scanner that can do it, since this system is a patented forumla, with no workarounds......like Uniden did with APCO-25.......San Antonio really gave the scanner folks the shaft big time.

So......don't want to dissapoint anyone.....but some how these statements from radio folk come true.......

Thanks goodness I am now in DE.

- Mark
 
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K3GI

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Recently talked to a friend who was able to shed some light on this subject. EMS and paramedics may go encrypted because there is a concern that open communication may lead them to be in violation of the medical privacy laws (hippa). There has been some thought to encrypting all law enforcement comms, but cost could nix that. Fire comms will probably stay encryption free. Money is a big issue here.

Lee, K3GI
 

Audiodave1

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I'm not too surprised the EMS-Hosp groups may ENC. I travel to many cities and most use Nextel for this info and the ones that don't have ENC groups on the TRS they operate on.

DSP already encrypts the groups they need to. I believe it is unlikely Command and TACS will become fulltime ENC.

Dave
 

pinetree

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Somebody in the State better be ready to pour out mucho bucks if they go encryption. Many of the earlier radios are not encryption ready or are not able to be so programmed and many of the new ones that are not Motorola may have to be replaced. They had better be ready to fix the whole system so that it works before adding this to it.
 

ctrabs74

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K3GI said:
EMS and paramedics may go encrypted because there is a concern that open communication may lead them to be in violation of the medical privacy laws (hippa).
I'm not in the fire service, nor am I a lawyer, but my understanding is that as long as no personal information (read: the patient's name) is put over the air, then I can't see where there's a HIPPA violation. In Chester County, some EMS providers will provide full vitals and a patient's conditions over the air (generally, it's just age, gender, mechanism of injury/illness, vitals, patient's current condition, and ETA to hospital; sometimes it's just a quick rundown), but NEVER have I heard them identify a patient by name.

There has been some thought to encrypting all law enforcement comms, but cost could nix that.
I would hope so. I can see the need to encrypt some surveillance and other sensitive TGs, but not all law enforcement comms.
 

K3GI

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ctrabs,

The way it was explained to me was that they are afraid some hot-shot lawyer will jump on this, and they are trying to head it off. Something like you see your neighbor leave home. A few minutes later you hear the call for an ambulance at an accident scene and recognize the description of the vehicle as your neighbor's. Then you monitor the medics with their information, put two and two together, and later tell your neighbor all about it. He gets upset and sues for invasion of privacy.

To me that is pretty far-fetched, but that is how it was put to me; they are afraid of a situation like that happening and are thinking about encryption as a preventive measure. As pinetree said, that will cost them a bunch of money, so we'll just have to wait and see.

Lee, K3GI
 

tolley

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Not to mention all of the counties who have non encrypted Motorola radios that will no longer be able to communicate with the DE State TRS including Wicomico, Dorchester, Caroline, Queen Annes.
 
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N_Jay

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tolley said:
Not to mention all of the counties who have non encrypted Motorola radios that will no longer be able to communicate with the DE State TRS including Wicomico, Dorchester, Caroline, Queen Annes.
You seem to be implying that the system won't pass unencrypted traffic.
 

hai_akeeba

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If the talk groups are "strapped secure" as opposed to radio encryption turned on. Delaware agencies accessing a "strapped" group MUST turn on their radio encryptor or they get a BONK sound when attempting to access that group.
 

tolley

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None of the counties that I mentioned use encryption to my knowledge. For those counties to communicate with DE they must have encrypted enabled radios which cost a lot of money to upgrade. Being involved in a local fire company that borders DE we have not heard mention of DE going encrypted. For instance our ambulance routinely transports patients to Nanticoke MMH and we have to access the DE system in order to talk to the hospital for the physician consult. We also do mutual aid fire calls with Seaford and Blades FD. Once DE goes encrypted our current radios would have to be upgraded and reprogrammed which brings us back to square one on the interopability issue. One conceiveable way around this would be for the MD counties to use the MESIN network which uses analog 800 mhz channels and have the dispatch centers "patch" the encrypted talkgroups over. But once you do this you are not using encryption anymore. Go figure!!

Is there any written documentation regarding this? It would be important for us to know here in MD since we would need to upgrade our radios which in turn will cost a lot more money that we don't have.
 
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N_Jay

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tolley said:
None of the counties that I mentioned use encryption to my knowledge. For those counties to communicate with DE they must have encrypted enabled radios which cost a lot of money to upgrade.
Here is your error. It does not take encrypted radios, it just takes planning.
tolley said:
Once DE goes encrypted our current radios would have to be upgraded and reprogrammed which brings us back to square one on the interoperability issue.
Yes, programming to match any system and talkgroup changes, but that would happen with any system upgrade or change.
tolley said:
One conceivable way around this would be for the MD counties to use the MESIN network which uses analog 800 mhz channels and have the dispatch centers "patch" the encrypted talkgroups over. But once you do this you are not using encryption anymore. Go figure!!
That would be one part of a potential plan.
If you don;t have encrypted equipment, you obviously can't use encryption.
tolley said:
Is there any written documentation regarding this? It would be important for us to know here in MD since we would need to upgrade our radios which in turn will cost a lot more money that we don't have.
Maybe you need to contact within Delaware?:confused:
 

pinetree

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"it just takes planning."

Delaware is not known for planning Somebody gets an idea and they do it and figure out what to do later. That is why our system does not work as it should.
 

tolley

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The word "plan" was thrown around earlier. As I asked earlier is there a plan or even some kind of hard evidence that can be presented to support the encrypyted migration for DE? Since it was mentioned earlier that DE does things then figures out how it work later then I guess we need to be proactive and see if this is true so that we can come up with a PLAN so that when we need to talk to a physician or an incoming Engine for a house fire we know what to do!!!
 

pinetree

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I received information today that Delaware is NOT going encrypted. Good news for all of us. There may be some DSP and individual towns but not the whole system.
 

ctrabs74

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pinetree said:
I received information today that Delaware is NOT going encrypted. Good news for all of us. There may be some DSP and individual towns but not the whole system.
In other words, pretty much the same as it is presently (with some ENC on DSP TGs and Dover City PD full ENC), correct?
 
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