Deprecated Channels still in use

[Viper43]

Not sure why the admin are doing this but just because a CC and one channel (alternate CC) are found for a new system doesn't mean the old VHF system is offline, and in fact it could be months for them to go away, or some may continue use in another capacity. Anyway, the recently found Crane Naval Weapons facility in Indiana was found using a newly set up system and immediately the admin deprecated the old channels even though there is nothing but two channels on the new P25 and no talkgoups to replace the old channels. Even more interesting is the fact the old channels are still being used..... someones jumping the gun!

Old system (scroll down to USNWC NAVSEA Crane)

Indiana Military Operations Scanner Frequencies and Radio Frequency Reference

And new system here:

U.S. Department of Defense: Project 25 Trunking System, Various, Multi-State - Scanner Frequencies

This seems to occurr a lot where a new system is found and instantly the old old channels get deprecated even though they are still used. I still hear Crane way up here on the old system. This also occurrs on PS trunked systems where the old channels either become backups or used for something else but the admins say they are deprecated because the new system appears. It seems to me a policy or change in policy needs to be made because too many times the old channels are still in use even if it is limited.

 

[davidgcet]

yep, around here most of the FD's kept their old VHF or UHF systems and still use them primarily to this day even though the county has has a type II trunk system for 13 years now!

 

[Viper43]

Yeah, this issue with tagging channels deprecated really affects the HomePatrol, once tagged deprecated the software Uniden uses won't allow deprecated channels to added to the DB in the HomePatrol, not good when the channels ae still active!

 

[WayneH]

Did you send a submission in correcting them?

 

[Viper43]

Did you send a submission in correcting them?

No, because certain admin won't do submissions, even if they are verified. I submitted stuff back in Aug (and since) and most of it was marked "completed with ZERO changes. And what little was done on a couple had to be fixed. It shouldn't take 5 months to get submissions done, and they should actually be done and not just ignored and marked done. At the time they were submitted I did have some things on there I didn't know they wouldn't accept, but they obviously didn't look too far and skipped a lot of things that SHOULD have been added as well as tones that were skipped too.
Also, a submission wouldn't bring to Blanton or others the issues with deprecated channels and the fact that many are still used and too many admins are making assumptions that since there is a new system the old channels are no longer used at all.

 

[GTR8000]

The 'Deprecated' tag should be used judiciously and sparingly, and only after the frequencies are absolutely confirmed as no longer in use (preferably by at least two credible sources, although that's probably not always possible). No user should have to submit a correction to reverse the application of the 'Deprecated' tag by an overzealous DB Admin, it shouldn't happen in the first place.

Interestingly enough, I just looked and searched through the latest version of the DB Admin Handbook and the 'Deprecated' tag is not mentioned anywhere in the guide. It is glaringly omitted from the Function Tagging section. That condition really ought to be corrected with clear instructions on how and when that particular function tag should be used, especially since it now directly affects certain devices, such as the HP.

 

[KE5TLF]

Yep. NAS Pensacola and NSA Panama City both have had DOD 380 TRS sites LONG before the ones you mention and to this day both of their old VHF TRS's are still on the air. Confirmed yet again by me less than 24 hours ago when they paid me yet another little visit via ducting. The military especially is going to maintain radio capabilities on any an every frequency/mode/method available to them.

 

[GTR8000]

Just to add...many agencies will cling to their old conventional frequencies forever. It costs very little to do so, they already own all the equipment in many cases, their FCC licenses are valid for a number of years and/or cost nothing to renew, and of course the buzzword INTEROPERABILITY.

So the policy ought to be that unless you are 110% certain that the agency and surrounding agencies no longer have the physical equipment or ability to transmit on those "old" frequencies, leave them alone!

 

[c5corvette]

1) At least someone is listing them as "depricated" - in my locality someone simply deleted the old low band frequencies from the DB completely when I know for a fact they are still programmed into local equipment here. (In my opinion when a freq officially goes silent, it should be listed as depricated. When an actual license expires, I am not sure it should be removed, but I am not sure how this is being handled. (If I had my choice nothing would ever be deleted. I have all my annual POLICE CALL books dating back to the 1980's, for the very purpose of finding depricated info.)

2) While there should be some system of checks and balances and I am not sure how that is done, but the DB admins shouldn't be and hopefully arent the ones just making decisions about what to list as depricated and when. This should come from the users (and as such is subject to interpretation.)

3) As for members having to make unnecessary corrections, that is a necessary evil of this database. Unfortunately, any newbie can submit and change. Heck I can submit a change today and deleted a trunk channel freq assignment for a system I know nothing about and if the admin updates the db its going to be up to some other user to submit the missing frequency back to the database. It has been said before the info in this database is only as good as the people who make submissions, and they should be sumitting anything that is verified (again 'verified' is an interpretation issue with a public database like this.)

<RANT ON>

We need to be "Blanton" has admins willing to volunteer for the job and we should not bad mouth them. And if someone is not willing to make updates when they know something needs corrected and the know the info to be verified and true then they are the reason the db system is flawed and shoudn't be complaining.

<RANT OFF>

Many thanks to Lindsay and his team for providng this 'service' to us!

 

[rdale]

No, because

Just do it and then post their response if you don't agree. Whining without action is just whining.

 

[burner50]

No, because certain admin won't do submissions, even if they are verified. I submitted stuff back in Aug (and since) and most of it was marked "completed with ZERO changes.

I believe that your submission issues and history would be better handled privately rather than in the public forum.

 

[SQUAD109]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPod; U; CPU iPhone OS 3_1_3 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/528.18 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/4.0 Mobile/7E18 Safari/528.16)

I'm just tired of ppl complaining there hp scanners won't work get a real scanner lol

 

[Viper43]

I believe that your submission issues and history would be better handled privately rather than in the public forum.

Gee burner50.... tried that.... 1 year + to get ONE channel fixed that the admin put where HE thought it should go, not with the actual licensed user and with improper user tag and usage tag. Submissions in this area have become a joke with stuff being submitted and not active in years, channels that are active being deprected and mostly at the whims of one admin. No one can get ahold of Blanton, and the person in charge of the DB is no help, you do what you have to to get the job done RIGHT. I know that they need more admins for Indiana, maybe getting some in the actual areas would be more useful than having someone who can only guess or assume in many cases whats right and what isn't. But whe someone from out of state submits stuff and someone local says it's not active someone should listen. 95% of the fed frequencies (under Marion County) are no longer in use and haven't been in 3 to 5 years. I een went back through logs to see when some last appeared and one was back in 2004.... but the admin stuck it back in the DB. The submitter hadn't lived in the state for a while

 

[Viper43]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPod; U; CPU iPhone OS 3_1_3 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/528.18 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/4.0 Mobile/7E18 Safari/528.16)

I'm just tired of ppl complaining there hp scanners won't work get a real scanner lol

Don't read threads about the HP then... And btw, the HP IS a real scanner. And further more this situation DOSE affect all scanners, and especially new users who jump on the DB looking for frequencies and see that there are deprecated frequencies they won't bother to load them and therefore will miss out on something they wanted to hear. The HP situation means they won't get loaded into the DB as they should be, so it affects all users.

 

[scannerfreak]

No, because certain admin won't do submissions, even if they are verified. I submitted stuff back in Aug (and since) and most of it was marked "completed with ZERO changes. And what little was done on a couple had to be fixed. It shouldn't take 5 months to get submissions done, and they should actually be done and not just ignored and marked done. At the time they were submitted I did have some things on there I didn't know they wouldn't accept, but they obviously didn't look too far and skipped a lot of things that SHOULD have been added as well as tones that were skipped too.
Also, a submission wouldn't bring to Blanton or others the issues with deprecated channels and the fact that many are still used and too many admins are making assumptions that since there is a new system the old channels are no longer used at all.

For the record, your original complaint was not done by me, so can't help you there. As I stated before, there is a reason for the above. You seem to be the only one with any issue getting stuff in the DB changed as I haven't heard from anyone else. By the way, I am not the only Indiana Admin..

 

[burner50]

Gee burner50.... tried that.... 1 year + to get ONE channel fixed that the admin put where HE thought it should go, not with the actual licensed user and with improper user tag and usage tag. Submissions in this area have become a joke with stuff being submitted and not active in years, channels that are active being deprected and mostly at the whims of one admin. No one can get ahold of Blanton, and the person in charge of the DB is no help, you do what you have to to get the job done RIGHT. I know that they need more admins for Indiana, maybe getting some in the actual areas would be more useful than having someone who can only guess or assume in many cases whats right and what isn't. But whe someone from out of state submits stuff and someone local says it's not active someone should listen. 95% of the fed frequencies (under Marion County) are no longer in use and haven't been in 3 to 5 years. I een went back through logs to see when some last appeared and one was back in 2004.... but the admin stuck it back in the DB. The submitter hadn't lived in the state for a while

I have no problems getting ahold of Lindsay Blanton. Perhaps you haven't tried very hard... He answers several E-Mail addresses.


And as I said before, It would be better to discuss your history and the reasons for the way your submissions are dealt with in private. But please remember, that everybody has a history, and your actions in the past are considered when decisions are made. And on the internet, everybody has a long memory.

 

[GTR8000]

No one can get ahold of Blanton

That is patently untrue. Every email I've ever sent to Lindsay was answered a lot faster than most people bother to answer their emails. You've been a member of this site for 5.5 years and you still can't figure out how to email him? C'mon now.

 

[Viper43]

For the record, your original complaint was not done by me, so can't help you there. As I stated before, there is a reason for the above. You seem to be the only one with any issue getting stuff in the DB changed as I haven't heard from anyone else. By the way, I am not the only Indiana Admin..

Scannerfreak you know darn well I am NOT the only one who has problems getting things changed in the DB. And IF you had looked at those submissions closer you'd have found there was a lot of stuff that needed added and tones to add.

Anyway, back on the subject of the thread.... the old channels are still in use, and according to one person I know who works at Crane many if not all of those channels will stay active even after the new system goes online fulltime. Security and so forth at the site will kept as backups in case the new sysytem would fail, so none of the channels should be marked as deprecated.

 

[LAflyer]

I believe there needs to be a little understanding of what depreciated really means, and what people want out of the DB.

In my experience at least out here in Southern California many entities hold on to licenses well past the date older frequencies are in regular use.
For instance a local agency here moved to a whole new system, but about 3-4 year later at a community fair event handed out some old radios for volunteers to use. All of a sudden a pair of old frequencies came alive for a couple hours over a single weekend.

So do we want to list such old licenses and frequencies into perpetuity "just incase"? And if so where do we draw the line and concede that things are truly depreciated?

While probably no solutions is perfect all the way around, I can&#8217;t see keeping old frequencies around for "just incase". Sure some things can slip between the cracks, and if members are aware frequencies are truly still used on a regular basis they should be returned to the DB as active, but needlessly occupying dozens of channel spaces in people scanners potentially slowing things down and creating other confusion can&#8217;t be the right way either. It seems to me we all would like the DB as clean and current as possible.

Lastly we do have the wiki-section. Might be an idea if people want to hang onto old frequencies or channel info, the information can be populated there by members.

 

[blantonl]

Ok folks, it looks like it was a simple mistake by the admin... and it's been fixed.