just some casual observations that I have made on the DOD 14C radio system while here.
(this is not meant to be a derogatory post against the information that is currently in the RR dB in any way, more just my ramblings on how I try to figure stuff out --- rudimentary signals analysis type stuff)
It seems to me that there are several 14C sites where the exact geo-location isn't known very accurately. This is expected with Federal/Military stuff since we don't have an open source of data to bounce our listening against. Taking that into account, one of the easiest ways is sort of an old school approach of listening and putting some pencil on paper to see if a hand drawn map can be made to fit a template of sorts of the facilities in question.
For example. "Naval Base Kitsap" is made of up (no fewer than) >FIVE< separate facilities.
Naval Base Kitsap - Bremerton (includes Puget Sound Naval Shipyard)
Naval Base Kitsap - Bangor (submarine base)
Naval Base Kitsap - Jackson Park (Bremerton Naval Hospital and Housing areas)
Naval Base Kitsap - Keyport (Weapons Station)
Naval Base Kitsap - Manchester (Fuel Depot)
The above isn't mean to imply that each of these sites absolutely have their own 14C site --- but it sort of would make sense that they would with the exception of the Jackson Park area as that's very close to NBK-Bremerton)
Naval Base Kitsap is just a small chunk of the overall puzzle when you take a step back and think about the other facilities in the pacific northwest... Whitbey, Everett, Indian Island Weapons Magazine, etc. etc....
Sidenote: the vast majority of radio traffic I have heard is UNENCRYPTED. Even most of the encrypted calls are 50/50 -- one station is in the clear and the other is encrypted. YMMV.
--------------
here is the DSD+ data showing the "site neighbor" information for the facilities that I could hear on this trip:
System14C
Site 5.51
Neighbor list: 5.52, 5.53
Site 5.52
Neighbor list: 5.51, 5.53, 5.56, 5.57, 5.58
Site 5.53 << my guess = Naval Base Kitsap - Bremerton
Neighbor list: 5.51, 5.52, 5.54, 5.57
Site 5.54
Neighbor list: 5.53, 5.55, 5.57
Site 5.55 << my guess = Naval Base Kitsap - Bangor
Neighbor list: 5.54, 5.56, 5.57
(note that I could not hear site 5.57 or 5.58 at all from Bremerton, 5.56 was very weak and not enough to decode reliable data)
Since I can hear all of the above sites from where I am located (and I am not anywhere remotely close to NAS Whitbey) --- I do not think any of these sites are associated with Whitbey - but I could most certainly be wrong too --- (we don't have mountains with repeaters in Florida)
If you sit down and start with hand drawn circles on a map, you may very well end up being able to piece this together based on the adjacent site information above. It's a puzzle for sure, but it can be figured out with enough data!
-------------------
Here is another consideration - the military, just like many civilian organizations - has gone to consolidated dispatch operations. We see this in Florida all the time with both federal (ICE/Customs/DHS, US Fish/Wildlife), military and civilian agencies. Here is the supergroup / patch information for the above sites --- keep in mind that these can / do change so consider this more of a snapshot in time:
(the text entries for these talkgroups is directly from the 14C dB entry page as imported into DSD+)
Site 5.51 patches
Patch Supergroup: TG=23292 [[NASW MP] Military Police]
Patch Subgroup: TG=23625 [[NBK Sec SP] Security SP]
Patch Subgroup: TG=23272 [[NASW Perimet] Base Perimeter Check]
Patch Supergroup: TG=23331
Patch Subgroup: TG=23323
-------------------
Site 5.52 patches
Current network: BEE00.14C DoD 14C
Patch Supergroup: TG=23331
Patch Subgroup: TG=23323
Patch Subgroup: TG=23330
Patch Supergroup: TG=23331
Patch Subgroup: TG=23323
Patch Subgroup: TG=23330
-------------------
Site 5.53 patches
Patch Supergroup: TG=23292 [[NASW MP] Military Police]
Patch Subgroup: TG=23272 [[NASW Perimet] Base Perimeter Check]
Patch Subgroup: TG=23625 [[NBK Sec SP] Security SP]
Patch Supergroup: TG=23292 [[NASW MP] Military Police]
Patch Subgroup: TG=23272 [[NASW Perimet] Base Perimeter Check]
Patch Subgroup: TG=23625 [[NBK Sec SP] Security SP]
Patch Supergroup: TG=23331
Patch Subgroup: TG=23323
-------------------
Site 5.54 patches
Patch Supergroup: TG=23292 [[NASW MP] Military Police]
Patch Subgroup: TG=23625 [[NBK Sec SP] Security SP]
Patch Subgroup: TG=23272 [[NASW Perimet] Base Perimeter Check]
Patch Supergroup: TG=23331
Patch Subgroup: TG=23323
-------------------
Site 5.55 patches
Patch Supergroup: TG=23292 [[NASW MP] Military Police]
Patch Subgroup: TG=23625 [[NBK Sec SP] Security SP]
Patch Subgroup: TG=23272 [[NASW Perimet] Base Perimeter Check]
Patch Supergroup: TG=23292 [[NASW MP] Military Police]
Patch Subgroup: TG=23625 [[NBK Sec SP] Security SP]
Patch Subgroup: TG=23272 [[NASW Perimet] Base Perimeter Check]
Patch Supergroup: TG=23331
Patch Subgroup: TG=23323
Patch Subgroup: TG=23330
-------------------
This nugget of info shows clearly that there are three unknown / un-ID'd TGs associated with these sites: 23323, 23330 and 23331 --- so putting those three "new" TGs into your scan list would be a good idea.
anyway, that's the ramblings for this evening --- I encourage those that can run any type of trunking data decoder (Unitrunker, DSD+, etc) to take some time and see if we can make some more educated guesses on the sites up here in the Pacific Northwest.
doug
(this is not meant to be a derogatory post against the information that is currently in the RR dB in any way, more just my ramblings on how I try to figure stuff out --- rudimentary signals analysis type stuff)
It seems to me that there are several 14C sites where the exact geo-location isn't known very accurately. This is expected with Federal/Military stuff since we don't have an open source of data to bounce our listening against. Taking that into account, one of the easiest ways is sort of an old school approach of listening and putting some pencil on paper to see if a hand drawn map can be made to fit a template of sorts of the facilities in question.
For example. "Naval Base Kitsap" is made of up (no fewer than) >FIVE< separate facilities.
Naval Base Kitsap - Bremerton (includes Puget Sound Naval Shipyard)
Naval Base Kitsap - Bangor (submarine base)
Naval Base Kitsap - Jackson Park (Bremerton Naval Hospital and Housing areas)
Naval Base Kitsap - Keyport (Weapons Station)
Naval Base Kitsap - Manchester (Fuel Depot)
The above isn't mean to imply that each of these sites absolutely have their own 14C site --- but it sort of would make sense that they would with the exception of the Jackson Park area as that's very close to NBK-Bremerton)
Naval Base Kitsap is just a small chunk of the overall puzzle when you take a step back and think about the other facilities in the pacific northwest... Whitbey, Everett, Indian Island Weapons Magazine, etc. etc....
Sidenote: the vast majority of radio traffic I have heard is UNENCRYPTED. Even most of the encrypted calls are 50/50 -- one station is in the clear and the other is encrypted. YMMV.
--------------
here is the DSD+ data showing the "site neighbor" information for the facilities that I could hear on this trip:
System14C
Site 5.51
Neighbor list: 5.52, 5.53
Site 5.52
Neighbor list: 5.51, 5.53, 5.56, 5.57, 5.58
Site 5.53 << my guess = Naval Base Kitsap - Bremerton
Neighbor list: 5.51, 5.52, 5.54, 5.57
Site 5.54
Neighbor list: 5.53, 5.55, 5.57
Site 5.55 << my guess = Naval Base Kitsap - Bangor
Neighbor list: 5.54, 5.56, 5.57
(note that I could not hear site 5.57 or 5.58 at all from Bremerton, 5.56 was very weak and not enough to decode reliable data)
Since I can hear all of the above sites from where I am located (and I am not anywhere remotely close to NAS Whitbey) --- I do not think any of these sites are associated with Whitbey - but I could most certainly be wrong too --- (we don't have mountains with repeaters in Florida)
If you sit down and start with hand drawn circles on a map, you may very well end up being able to piece this together based on the adjacent site information above. It's a puzzle for sure, but it can be figured out with enough data!
-------------------
Here is another consideration - the military, just like many civilian organizations - has gone to consolidated dispatch operations. We see this in Florida all the time with both federal (ICE/Customs/DHS, US Fish/Wildlife), military and civilian agencies. Here is the supergroup / patch information for the above sites --- keep in mind that these can / do change so consider this more of a snapshot in time:
(the text entries for these talkgroups is directly from the 14C dB entry page as imported into DSD+)
Site 5.51 patches
Patch Supergroup: TG=23292 [[NASW MP] Military Police]
Patch Subgroup: TG=23625 [[NBK Sec SP] Security SP]
Patch Subgroup: TG=23272 [[NASW Perimet] Base Perimeter Check]
Patch Supergroup: TG=23331
Patch Subgroup: TG=23323
-------------------
Site 5.52 patches
Current network: BEE00.14C DoD 14C
Patch Supergroup: TG=23331
Patch Subgroup: TG=23323
Patch Subgroup: TG=23330
Patch Supergroup: TG=23331
Patch Subgroup: TG=23323
Patch Subgroup: TG=23330
-------------------
Site 5.53 patches
Patch Supergroup: TG=23292 [[NASW MP] Military Police]
Patch Subgroup: TG=23272 [[NASW Perimet] Base Perimeter Check]
Patch Subgroup: TG=23625 [[NBK Sec SP] Security SP]
Patch Supergroup: TG=23292 [[NASW MP] Military Police]
Patch Subgroup: TG=23272 [[NASW Perimet] Base Perimeter Check]
Patch Subgroup: TG=23625 [[NBK Sec SP] Security SP]
Patch Supergroup: TG=23331
Patch Subgroup: TG=23323
-------------------
Site 5.54 patches
Patch Supergroup: TG=23292 [[NASW MP] Military Police]
Patch Subgroup: TG=23625 [[NBK Sec SP] Security SP]
Patch Subgroup: TG=23272 [[NASW Perimet] Base Perimeter Check]
Patch Supergroup: TG=23331
Patch Subgroup: TG=23323
-------------------
Site 5.55 patches
Patch Supergroup: TG=23292 [[NASW MP] Military Police]
Patch Subgroup: TG=23625 [[NBK Sec SP] Security SP]
Patch Subgroup: TG=23272 [[NASW Perimet] Base Perimeter Check]
Patch Supergroup: TG=23292 [[NASW MP] Military Police]
Patch Subgroup: TG=23625 [[NBK Sec SP] Security SP]
Patch Subgroup: TG=23272 [[NASW Perimet] Base Perimeter Check]
Patch Supergroup: TG=23331
Patch Subgroup: TG=23323
Patch Subgroup: TG=23330
-------------------
This nugget of info shows clearly that there are three unknown / un-ID'd TGs associated with these sites: 23323, 23330 and 23331 --- so putting those three "new" TGs into your scan list would be a good idea.
anyway, that's the ramblings for this evening --- I encourage those that can run any type of trunking data decoder (Unitrunker, DSD+, etc) to take some time and see if we can make some more educated guesses on the sites up here in the Pacific Northwest.
doug
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