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Detection range of mobile p25 radios

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balibago

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Clearly our hobby is making 0 progress toward decrypting even the most simple of encryption algorithms at least publicly anyhow. In light of this does anyone out there recommend some kind of device to increase the range of close call to let's say a mile or so. This would at least indicate the presence of these radios. Do P 25 radios signal back to the tower every few minutes? This transmission could also indicate the presence of these radios in one's vicinity. Clearly in a rural or wilderness environment being able to pick up any transmission in the 700 MHz band would indicate at least the presence of someone of a government nature. Also anyone who could give out any reccomendations with regard to radio direction finding and traffic analysis would be greatly appreciated.
 

kayn1n32008

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Clearly our hobby is making 0 progress toward decrypting even the most simple of encryption algorithms at least publicly anyhow.
Really, what part of IT IS ILLEGAL TO DECRYPT TRANSMISSIONS NOT INTENDED FOR YOU do you not understand? Hence there is "0 progress towards decrypting the most simple of encryption algorithms" being publicly discussed, outside of cryptographic research projects. Usually this research is released as 'white papers'

In light of this does anyone out there recommend some kind of device to increase the range of close call to let's say a mile or so.

Close call "range" is dependant on the strength of the ambient RF in the given environment. Close call works when a signal is significantly stronger than anything else detected, something on the order of 20db or so, if it is not, close call will not see it. If you are looking for an 800MHz signal, and you live near a 800MHz repeater site, close call may not ever trigger on a portable transmitting, unless it is right beside you.

If a signal is at the same strength as everything around you, it will be impossible to trip close call.
 

EmilyWolf

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Really, what part of IT IS ILLEGAL TO DECRYPT TRANSMISSIONS NOT INTENDED FOR YOU do you not understand? Hence there is "0 progress towards decrypting the most simple of encryption algorithms" being publicly discussed, outside of cryptographic research projects. Usually this research is released as 'white papers'




Close call "range" is dependant on the strength of the ambient RF in the given environment. Close call works when a signal is significantly stronger than anything else detected, something on the order of 20db or so, if it is not, close call will not see it. If you are looking for an 800MHz signal, and you live near a 800MHz repeater site, close call may not ever trigger on a portable transmitting, unless it is right beside you.

If a signal is at the same strength as everything around you, it will be impossible to trip close call.
Well actually the way to increse the detection range on close call is to use a better antenna in a better position. But i agree with you. Detecting P25 does nothing to show governemnt presence as HAMs and lots of commercial and private services use it.
 

balibago

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As I said earlier

As I said earlier this hobby seems to be cowed in fear by even the simplest of crypto algorithms while on other websites people brag of their exploits with drugs {Erowid.net} and of their experiences with hookers {ECCIE.net} all of these things are illegal just as decrypting an encrypted signal is. In some time we can expect stronger encryption algorithms as well as more discreet ones so we freedom loving Americans must learn the secrets of traffic analysis, direction finding and detection. A little jamming thrown in would be nice too.
 

EmilyWolf

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Thats pointless p25. There has been aes256 modules and radios built for a long time now if you want real security.
 

jackj

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Why would you want to listen to encrypted communications. They aren't going to talk about the good stuff like which town/city council member is visiting a prostitute or how much the mayor took in his latest bribe. All they're going to talk about is the pusher they're gonna take down. Not really worth the effort to decrypt.
 

mmckenna

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As I said earlier this hobby seems to be cowed in fear by even the simplest of crypto algorithms while on other websites people brag of their exploits with drugs {Erowid.net} and of their experiences with hookers {ECCIE.net} all of these things are illegal just as decrypting an encrypted signal is. In some time we can expect stronger encryption algorithms as well as more discreet ones so we freedom loving Americans must learn the secrets of traffic analysis, direction finding and detection. A little jamming thrown in would be nice too.
OK. We get it, you're a bad boy.

You don't care about the laws, and you certainly don't understand the technology nor the reason for having encryption.

No one owes you anything.

Freedom doesn't mean that you are allowed to do whatever you want. Time to get over that fallacy. Freedom doesn't mean that law enforcement is bad. Jamming a radio signal because you are not allowed to listen to it is childish, and risks other peoples lives.

Time to get off the "freedom loving American" wagon. Thinking that phrase makes you superior to the rest of the world is nonsense. Thinking that you are entitled to something because of that statement just makes you yet another person with a self inflated value of entitlement. And honestly, we've got way to many people with that in this country.

Encryption is there for a reason. Nobody owes you access to encrypted transmissions. The very reason they are encrypted is to stop casual eavesdropping. The laws to discourage decrypting things that you are not entitled to are there for a good reason.
You have no need to intercept my visa card number when I purchase something online. You are not entitled to that information.
You have no need to listen in on private medical information. You are not entitled to that.
You may think you are entitled to listen in on encrypted law enforcement traffic because they are obviously doing something you don't agree with. You are not.

You are not entitled to wiretap the phone lines of the police department. You are not entitled to listen in on their cell phone calls. You are not entitled free access to any of the records information they process.

Time to get over it. Put your big boy pants on and join the rest of us law abiding citizens that also enjoy our freedoms.
 

balibago

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OK now that you have had your conservative rant.Let's work together to find out the best ways to at least detect these radios transmissions to protect ourselves from potentially abusive public officials. These government control freaks aren't entitled to keep everything secret as well in a free country. I too am a law abiding citizen but there is a limit. In my opinion there are far too many squeamish people out here un willing to violate unjust laws en masse. Look at the 2 states who decided they were entitled to smoke weed. Federal law or not. And I enjoy being a kid it's a lot more fun than being a grumpy adult.
 

mmckenna

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Get a spectrum analyzer and a directional antenna. Prepare to be disappointed.

Encryption isn't a joke. You are not going to find a product that is going to easily and cheaply decrypt the more serious types. Even if you do, all they have to do is change their key, and you're back to listening to noise.
 

wtp

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just to address the 1 mile cc

by the time you get a device to trip at 1 mile for close call your next door neighbor's car key fob will be giving you hell or any in county fm or tv transmitter. by the time i pick up 800mhz at 1 mile i would get the airport awos that is 4 miles out
you had it right about scanning for a transmission but close call is a bit out of the question i believe.
let them encrypt the "good stuff" and let it go. they do need some privacy for good reasons.
 

jonwienke

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Really, what part of IT IS ILLEGAL TO DECRYPT TRANSMISSIONS NOT INTENDED FOR YOU do you not understand? Hence there is "0 progress towards decrypting the most simple of encryption algorithms" being publicly discussed, outside of cryptographic research projects. Usually this research is released as 'white papers'
It's not illegal to engage in cryptographic research, even if that research involves encrypted radio transmissions. It only becomes illegal if you start using the results of the research to decrypt someone else's encrypted radio traffic, or use someone else's encrypted traffic in your research without their consent.

There are many valid reasons to engage in such research, and even discoveries made by malicious hackers can be used for good. As an example, the original WPA wi-fi encryption algorithm was cracked by hackers who wanted to steal wi-fi services and data from people. But that discovery prompted the development of WPA2 and more secure other traffic encryption methods in use today.

Also, saying there is "zero progress toward decrypting the simplest of encryption algorithms" is not true. The "simplest" algorithms were broken long ago, as have been many not-so-simple algorithms. Algorithms are constantly being proposed, tested, broken, and revised.

Read "Applied Cryptography" by Bruce Schneier if you want to get some historical perspective on cryptography and a good idea of the current state of the art.
 

Thayne

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It's not illegal to engage in cryptographic research, even if that research involves encrypted radio transmissions. It only becomes illegal if you start using the results of the research to decrypt someone else's encrypted radio traffic, or use someone else's encrypted traffic in your research without their consent.

There are many valid reasons to engage in such research, and even discoveries made by malicious hackers can be used for good. As an example, the original WPA wi-fi encryption algorithm was cracked by hackers who wanted to steal wi-fi services and data from people. But that discovery prompted the development of WPA2 and more secure other traffic encryption methods in use today.

Also, saying there is "zero progress toward decrypting the simplest of encryption algorithms" is not true. The "simplest" algorithms were broken long ago, as have been many not-so-simple algorithms. Algorithms are constantly being proposed, tested, broken, and revised.

Read "Applied Cryptography" by Bruce Schneier if you want to get some historical perspective on cryptography and a good idea of the current state of the art.


Hacking into Internet Connected Light Bulbs

ingenious way to negate WPA2---Anything somebody dreams up can usually be circumvented eventually
 

kayn1n32008

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It's not illegal to engage in cryptographic research, even if that research involves encrypted radio transmissions. It only becomes illegal if you start using the results of the research to decrypt someone else's encrypted radio traffic, or use someone else's encrypted traffic in your research without their consent.
I am very aware that the simple algorithms have been broken in research settings. Also I was responding to someone that really needs to research and learn for himself, rather than just repeatedly venting onRR about encryption.
 

TDR-94

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If you really want to eavesdrop on local governments and their officials become a mole or bribe them for the 'inside' info lol!

The radio really isn't where the sensitive 'inside' info of the 'man' is discussed to begin with.It's just where some of the chatter that involves the everyday in's and out's of how they operate are located.They encrypt that radio traffic so it makes it more difficult for people to try and counteract those operations and procedures or avoid them.
 
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