Digital interoperability: Vocoders, Standards, Oh My!

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human8472

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I have been trying to figure out which digital radios can communicate with each other using digital voice. I have come across a lot of terms and acronyms and I am trying to sort out which is a standard and which is a vocoder. My goal is to try and put together a list of digital radios that can interoperate between each other.

Question #1: Does a list such as this already exist?

Questions #2: What part of radio specifications do you need to look in order to determine if a radio is interoperable with another.

Questions #3: Do I have these terms below grouped properly? Are there any I have missed?

Standards

1. DMR
2. P25
3. NXDN
4. MotoTRBO
5. D-Star
6. dPMR

Vocoders

1. AMBE+2C (Advanced Multi-Band Excitation)
2. IMBE (Improved Multi-Band Excitation)

Thank you!

P.S. I do realize that analog is the ultimate interoperable feature, however I am trying to find out which digital radios will work with each other.
 

ab5r

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I'm with you. LOST with all the terms. I have found that ICIM D-Star is GMSK codec and Yaesu is C4F codec. The latter, according to the internet (never wrong), is the same as APCO-25. I don't know.

If you ever get such a list pleas post.
Thanks
 

w2xab

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The simple answer is NONE of the different digital formats in you list can communicate with any of the others except for DMR and Mototrbo.

Mototrbo is Motorola Solutions implementation of DMR. All DMR radios that are Tier II can communication on other vendor's Tier II network infrastructure, the same should be true of Tier III.

While the Vocoders used by different technologies may be the same, the Vocoders can be configured for different data rates (compression). The frame headers (protocol) are different between the technologies.

There is not technical reason that P25 Phase 2 radios could not communicate with DMR, but that is a manufacturer decision to not support both technologies in the same radio; the same holds true in reverse.

Different technologies can be interconnected using bridges, this connects audio paths only.


John, W2XAB
 

human8472

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I'm with you. LOST with all the terms. I have found that ICIM D-Star is GMSK codec and Yaesu is C4F codec. The latter, according to the internet (never wrong), is the same as APCO-25. I don't know.

If you ever get such a list pleas post.
Thanks
Count on it. If I ever get an interoperability list together I will post it here.
 

human8472

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Mototrbo is Motorola Solutions implementation of DMR. All DMR radios that are Tier II can communication on other vendor's Tier II network infrastructure, the same should be true of Tier III.
So should radios that support dPMR also work with MotoTRBO?
 

KE5YOU

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IDAS and NXDN offer interoperablity. The technology we a cooperative effort between Kenwood and ICOM.
 

kayn1n32008

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IDAS and NXDN offer interoperablity. The technology we a cooperative effort between Kenwood and ICOM.

IDAS IS NXDN.

IDAS is Icoms trade name for NXDN, Nextedge is Kenwoods trade name for NXDN. Although Icom only offers 6.25KHz digital where as Kenwood offers digital in both 12.5KHz and 6.25 KHz channels


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KE5YOU

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IDAS IS NXDN.

IDAS is Icoms trade name for NXDN, Nextedge is Kenwoods trade name for NXDN. Although Icom only offers 6.25KHz digital where as Kenwood offers digital in both 12.5KHz and 6.25 KHz channels


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This I am aware of. And it doesn't change anything in my statement. My statement is also a relevant answer to the OPs question.
 

kb9mwr

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PACNWDude

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Radio interoperability.

The closest I have ever come to true radio interoperability involved: either a Raytheon ACU-1000 or a Telex console/C-Soft console tied into a rack of radios. And then you had to have one of each type of digital, analog or encrypted system in your network to patch over to each other.
Military Harris and Thales equipment gave me the most options, but not as easily obtainable on the hobby market.
I'm not holding my breath for true interoperability anytime soon, and just keep the patching equipment and pin-outs for as many radios as I can.
 

kb1ipd

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The formats listed are different and are not compatible. it's possible that a radio might have multiple modes it can work on, but these are different formats and thus one can't talk to the other.

It doesn't matter if they use the same vocoder or the same modulation. The encoding has to be basically identical. The error correction, the way the packets are formatted etc etc. If they are not the same it won't work.

Unfortunately, there are many modes and it does get confusing.

I made this a while ago. It might be helpful: http://forums.radioreference.com/digital-voice-formats/195054-complete-list-digital-voice-formats.html
 
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