Digital modes on Family Radio Service (FRS) channels

[Pr999]

GMRS gets some additional:
A1D = Dual Sideband single channel DATA not voice
F1D = Frequency Modulated single channel Data
G1D = Phase Modulated single channel Data
H1D = SSB single channel data
J1D = SSB suppressed carrier single channel data
R1D = SSB variable carrier single channel data
A3E = Dual Sideband single channel analog voice
H3E = SSB Full carrier analog voice
J3E = SSB suppressed carrier analog voice
R3E = SSB variable carrier analog voice

Wait... you can use SSB on GMRS? Or am I misinterpreting it?

 

[PDMR25]

FRS only allows:

§ 95.571 FRS emission types.​

Each FRS transmitter type must be designed such that it can transmit only the following emission types: F3E, G3E, F2D, and G2D.

Since FRS and GMRS share the same channels, this would come into play also:

§ 95.1771 GMRS emission types.​

Each GMRS transmitter type must be designed to satisfy the emission capability rules in this section. Operation of GMRS stations must also be in compliance with these rules.

(a) Each GMRS transmitter type must have the capability to transmit F3E or G3E emissions.
(b) Only emission types A1D, F1D, G1D, H1D, J1D, R1D, A3E, F3E, G3E, H3E, J3E, R3E, F2D, and G2D are authorized for use in the GMRS. Equipment for which certification is sought under this subpart may have capabilities to transmit other emission types intended for use in other services, provided that these emission types can be deactivated when the equipment is used in the GMRS.

Breakdown:
F3E = Frequency Modulated Voice (Analog FM)
G3E = Phase Modulated Voice
F2D = Frequency Modulated Data (this is the short data bursts used by some FRS/GMRS radios to send GPS data.) Data, not voice
G2D = Phase Modulated Data, like above.

GMRS gets some additional:
A1D = Dual Sideband single channel DATA not voice
F1D = Frequency Modulated single channel Data
G1D = Phase Modulated single channel Data
H1D = SSB single channel data
J1D = SSB suppressed carrier single channel data
R1D = SSB variable carrier single channel data
A3E = Dual Sideband single channel analog voice
H3E = SSB Full carrier analog voice
J3E = SSB suppressed carrier analog voice
R3E = SSB variable carrier analog voice

Note that "data" does not equal digital voice.

As mentioned above, there are a LOT of people that ignore the rules and do whatever they feel like. Running NXDN on FRS or GMRS is -not- legal. Neither is DMR, P25, D-Star, Fusion, etc….

A number of unscrupulous radio shops use GMRS as a dumping ground for radio users. They take the money to set them up with a radio system, and just dump them on GMRS thinking they'll never get noticed.

There are a fair amount of GMRS users that either don't understand the rules, believe everything they read on the internet, or just don't care.

Back a few years ago, there was ONE group that had a legal FCC experimental license so they could test DMR on GMRS. That was limited to a specific group in a specific, well defined area operating under an Experimental License, not a GMRS license, on GMRS frequencies. FCC did not renew that experimental license.

Come on "Some Company", start making AM/SSB GMRS mobiles!

 

[PDMR25]

Wait... you can use SSB on GMRS? Or am I misinterpreting it?

You can!

 

[Pr999]

You can!

I would honestly test this if there were a way.

 

[nd5y]

There is a reason why "Some Company" never made any equipment.
People don't realize how using SSB on GMRS won't work so well when almost all of the other signals are FM.
It won't be possible to use CTCSS or DCS to filter out unwanted signals. You will have crappy squelch that will probably need to be off most of the time, volume fluctuations due to the rapid picket fencing on moving signals at UHF and other issues.

 

[PDMR25]

There is a reason why "Some Company" never made any equipment.
People don't realize how using SSB on GMRS won't work so well when almost all of the other signals are FM.
It won't be possible to use CTCSS or DCS to filter out unwanted signals. You will have crappy squelch that will probably need to be off most of the time, volume fluctuations due to the rapid picket fencing on moving signals at UHF and other issues.

Excellent and factual point!

 

[mmckenna]

Wait... you can use SSB on GMRS? Or am I misinterpreting it?

You ~could~, but you can't because there are no type accepted radios that will do it.
Plus, you'd piss off the "8 channel army" (nod to @MTS2000des ) because most of them have never read the rules.
But I'm sure as I type this, some wanker ham with their "just in case" MARS/CAP modded all mode/all band radio is doing it.

 

[mmckenna]

Come on "Some Company", start making AM/SSB GMRS mobiles!

Please, for the love of God and all things holy, no. 8 channels and someone trying to play games with SSB is the last thing we need. SSB sucks for this sort of application.

"Just because you can, doesn't mean you should."

 

[PDMR25]

Please, for the love of God and all things holy, no. 8 channels and someone trying to play games with SSB is the last thing we need. SSB sucks for this sort of application.

"Just because you can, doesn't mean you should."

Of course you are right. My comment was meant to be facetious!

 

[Coffeemug]

I was wondering if anybody can tell me if any digital modes can be used on the Family Radio Service (FRS) channels.

This morning I was receiving a NXDN (Next Generation Digital Narrowband) 48 transmission on FRS Channel 5 462.6625 MHz with a RAN Code 1. The users sounded like some kind of construction company.

Transmission was received in Southeast Ohio on a Uniden BCD536HP with the NXDN paid upgrade.

According to FCC in Part 95B and 95E Digital Communications are permitted, just not phone/ voice.

However, all Digital Communications must be done on simplex, not on repeaters, like short Texts and I believe one is able send still photo over the air, but I'm not certain.

 

[amcferrin90]

I haven't tried this on my scanner but I have FRS and GMRS programmed in my 7500's. I will hear a digital mode on occasion on one of the channels. It seems to be a repeater and I've never detected it on my SDR. I assumed it was a harmonic.

 

[bill4long]

Probably never will be either which is a shame. I honestly had not looked closely at the permitted types of emissions on GMRS, that is honesty pretty interesting.

A shame? Come on. Bottom line is, there is no plausible market for SSB on GMRS.

 

[MTS2000des]

A shame? Come on. Bottom line is, there is no plausible market for SSB on GMRS.

Maybe someone should petition the FCC to allow digital emissions and ScanSafe™ encryption on GMRS....the 8 channel army would send orgasmic rays.

 

[Echo4Thirty]

But then how would the north Georgia idiots gouge their users?

 

[mmckenna]

there is no plausible market for SSB on GMRS.

Of course not, but you KNOW that some hambone has 'mars/cap' modded their multimode 70cm station to do it, for "when all else fails".

 

[K9KLC]

Of course not, but you KNOW that some hambone has 'mars/cap' modded their multimode 70cm station to do it, for "when all else fails".

I know a guy...(literally) that did that and ended up on SSB on GMRS. Took me a minute to figure out what I was hearing there.

 

[mmckenna]

I know a guy...(literally) that did that and ended up on SSB on GMRS. Took me a minute to figure out what I was hearing there.

I'm sure he's not the only one.

Maybe someone needs to introduce him to proper GMRS radios.

 

[K9KLC]

I'm sure he's not the only one.

Maybe someone needs to introduce him to proper GMRS radios.

Working on it...

 

[mmckenna]

Working on it...

Good luck. Some hams are awfully stubborn.
Set him up with a good Kenwood TK-8180 30 watt high split. It's got Part 95 approval, like it should, plus they are solid radios that will outlast us all.

 

[bill4long]

I know a guy...(literally) that did that and ended up on SSB on GMRS. Took me a minute to figure out what I was hearing there.

Did he talk to anyone besides himself?