Digital on FRS / GMRS??

[Aero125]

If your travels bring you thru Dunnellon Florida area - feel free to give me a shout - usually monitor GMRS 16

Maybe his GMRS Ch. 16 is a frequency that's programmed by default into Ch. 16 of a Baofeng.

 

[Project25_MASTR]

I kinda like that idea of ham radio clubs having a GMRS machine as well as the regular ham ones, that way ya could have a repeater to use as a second channel for the Skywarn net or for running training nets for those wanting to learn how to run a net or do Skywarn. Only hangup i could see is the licensing thingy, could a club even legally get a GMRS license, and second, would the license cover everyone in the club or just the family of (for example) the repeater trustee? Intresting idea there though. N9NRA

Not unless they had one prior to the rule change in 1989.

 

[KB7MIB]

1) An ARS club/group could sponsor a GMRS repeater. It would be owned by one or more club members who possess a GMRS license, and used by any members, and their respective family members, who possess a GMRS license. GMRS repeaters don't have to identify as long as the users properly identify, so the club doesn't need a club license for it, which they couldn't get anyway. But, that in no way prohibits them from sponsoring one.
And, it could get more people to become dual licensed, and get more spouses/children involved in radio communications, which could lead to more Hams down the road. More licensees in both services, and more dual-licensed licensees, could be a good thing, as long as all of the licensees follow the respective rules and regulations for both radio services.

2) Channel 16 would be 462.575, if you go by the standard 22 combined channels of the FRS/GMRS: 1-7 FRS/GMRS shared; 8-14 FRS only; 15-22 GMRS only.

John
WPXJ-598
Peoria, AZ

 

[jbailey618]

Digital on GMRS

I own two active GMRS repeaters in Southern Oregon and here's what I think. The FCC should ABSOLUTELY open GMRS to: FM, DMR, NXDN, and P25.

11K2F3E
7K60FXE
7K60FXD
4K00F1W
8K30F1W
8K30F7W

My thought behind this is simply because of the incredible usefulness of digital formats, surplus commercial equipment will be expanding more with digital equipment, safety features such as "man down" and GPS features are very useful for neighborhood watch, and other community based communications concerns. Group, and individual calling/paging, much more data and voice can be utilized in less bandwidth, etc. There is absolutely no logical reason in my eyes to prohibit digital emissions in GMRS, and while we're on this topic, there should be no reason in the world to prohibit site connection of two or more repeaters via IP connection (this is already largely debated and argued that it may indeed fall in the lines of being legal as it is not a "telephone switch connection" etc.. but that debate will rage on until the rules are changed to clearly spell out repeater linking parameters.

The addition of the digital spectrum in GMRS could be a very good thing for consumer FRS/GMRS gear as well, allowing them to be more useful, less intrusive to the band and work more effectively with less power in digital mode, while allowing the radios to always operate in "mixed mode" so that analog traffic is still able to be received in the event of emergencies on FRS and interstitial GMRS/FRS frequencies.

The bottom line is there are many benefits and many ways to make it work, and with added technology comes added interest to keep the band alive. Trust me, you're not going to impress many young people with a 40 year old analog repeater and a dead dumb simple FM HT when they are used to iPhones, iPads, etc... Show then a DMR radio with a color display, the ability to use talk groups, GPS, direct calling, and PC interfacing for events, and other activities, as well as IP linked repeaters similar to the worldwide DMR-MARC network, and things begin to seem very useful.

As for catering to Gomers that complain when someone ads a PL tone to a 20 year old repeater, who cares? Why dumb down communications technology because someone is resisting the fact that it's now 2015? My solution to this is to recommend repeater owners run their repeaters in Mixed mode and anyone with an FM radio that doesn't want to listen to digital traffic squealing away is more than welcome to program the repeaters TX PL into their RX on their radio. If their radio is so old you can't program PL or DPL's then that's another issue entirely. It's 2015. I'm looking forward to installing Motorola MotoTrbo XPR repeaters and donating my Kenwood TKR -850 Analog repeaters to local Ham systems in the future. I'm just hoping the FCC sees the value in this and opens their minds. I'm not sure I would do it, but I applaud the repeater owners that are bold enough to go digital already and be pioneers in GMRS showing how useful digital can be. Sure they are taking a risk, but it's OUR AIRWAVES!!! Things will never ever ever ever ever change (except to eliminate GMRS all together) if we all sit on our hand and do nothing.

 

[MTS2000des]

I own two active GMRS repeaters in Southern Oregon and here's what I think. The FCC should ABSOLUTELY open GMRS to: FM, DMR, NXDN, and P25.

I don't. GMRS is not ham radio. Want to play with all the cool modes, linking, run lots of power? Get a ham ticket, and pick from thousands of vacant frequencies and have fun. For all, non-commercial legal purposes of course.

There is absolutely no logical reason in my eyes to prohibit digital emissions in GMRS, and while we're on this topic, there should be no reason in the world to prohibit site connection of two or more repeaters via IP connection (this is already largely debated and argued that it may indeed fall in the lines of being legal as it is not a "telephone switch connection" etc.. but that debate will rage on until the rules are changed to clearly spell out repeater linking parameters.

Sure there is. All of what you propose is outside what the basis and purpose of GMRS is. Long range, linked systems, advanced signaling?

Part 97 for experimental/hobby use. Part 90 for commercial use.

No need to change the rules.

The addition of the digital spectrum in GMRS could be a very good thing for consumer FRS/GMRS gear as well, allowing them to be more useful, less intrusive to the band and work more effectively with less power in digital mode, while allowing the radios to always operate in "mixed mode" so that analog traffic is still able to be received in the event of emergencies on FRS and interstitial GMRS/FRS frequencies.

It can cause more of a problem than you think. Again, all of those technologies you propose using are intended for use on commercial part 90 spectrum and can become an issue with the millions of consumer and analog equipment on those frequencies. Those radios won't play nice with NXDN or DMR.

And the majority of the users are, like it or not, CONSUMERS. NXDN, P25, DMR, etc are expensive technologies intended for land mobile/professional users. The two won't play nice nor be good neighbors and you know it.

Trust me, you're not going to impress many young people with a 40 year old analog repeater and a dead dumb simple FM HT when they are used to iPhones, iPads, etc... Show then a DMR radio with a color display, the ability to use talk groups, GPS, direct calling, and PC interfacing for events, and other activities, as well as IP linked repeaters similar to the worldwide DMR-MARC network, and things begin to seem very useful.

and why not just get a ham license? All of this and more are available today for personal, non-business use.

Oh, they want to use it for business? Part 90.

You have some great ideas but they are more appropriate for ham radio. The FCC should not change the rules just to satisfy the whims of a few who want to be the "elite" when there are other radio services that are more appropriate and already legal for what you intend on doing.

 

[KB7MIB]

Another arguement that I've seen against repeater linking in the GMRS, by the Personal Radio Steering Group (PRSG) several years ago, is the requirement to monitor the channel for already on-going conversations, such as two or more users using simplex on the 462 side of the channel pair.

If one repeater isn't capable of monitoring the output for simplex users, and you key up over them, technically, you're in violation of the rules to start with. If you start linking two or more repeaters, this increases the chance of interfering with that many more users across a much wider area, compounding your violations.

I don't know how many GMRS repeaters across the country actually have a BCLO feature to prevent it from keying up over simplex users on the output, but that's the arguement, at least.

John
WPXJ-598
Peoria, AZ

 

[jbailey618]

Digital GMRS

I have my amateur license, and honestly I like GMRS sooo much better for several reasons, but mainly because it's much easier to implement in commercial sites (my repeaters are on the combiner, and rx/tx antennas with pre-amp etc... that were designed for an array of commercial UHF Customers) and they are much more casual to use than amateur in my area. My goal isn't to be "Elite" or "Experiment" with Digital, it's simply to install a very useful DMR system that brings RF Communication into this century. There is no real reason the rules of GMRS shouldn't be similar to Part 90 (considering the frequencies are smack dab in the middle of the Part 90 UHF band, and the equipment used for the 8 pairs of GMRS frequencies is part 90 equipment with the addition of part 95 approval in the first place.

I don't see why the resistance, all of your arguments against Digital on GMRS prove my point that there are some people that are completely resistant to change, for no other reason that they don't like change.

I think it's more than possible especially considering that digital and FM are existing nicely together in the part 90 world, as I am able to listen to itinerant frequencies in the same geographic area that are on DMR, FM, and NXDN without interfering with each other (In fact I don't believe they are even aware of each other) It's all about setup. We also manage to coexist on MURS just fine with FM voice, Gate Sensors, and Digital Data on the same frequency.

This IS the best future for GMRS I can think of, and if a few people can't figure out to set a PL or DPL tone on their radios, then it's likely they aren't doing very well with GMRS in the first place, and they certainly aren'y licensed.

 

[MTS2000des]

I have my amateur license, and honestly I like GMRS sooo much better for several reasons,

Such as?

, but mainly because it's much easier to implement in commercial sites (my repeaters are on the combiner, and rx/tx antennas with pre-amp etc... that were designed for an array of commercial UHF Customers)

So, because in your area, it's easier to play ham repeater the way you want to on 462/467MHz as your sites run combiners.

I feel your dilemma, but hardly worth changing the entire service rules just to suit your needs.

My goal isn't to be "Elite" or "Experiment" with Digital, it's simply to install a very useful DMR system that brings RF Communication into this century. There is no real reason the rules of GMRS shouldn't be similar to Part 90 (considering the frequencies are smack dab in the middle of the Part 90 UHF band, and the equipment used for the 8 pairs of GMRS frequencies is part 90 equipment with the addition of part 95 approval in the first place.

Because you are being inconsiderate of the owners of those millions of GMRS radios sold over the last 10-15 years that won't be compatible with your whizbang commercial-esque P25/NXDN/DMR/ digital radio system you want to lay down on top of those 8 channels.

You and your whims are a minority, like it or not, and the rules should not be changed just to suit you. That isn't the way it should work.

I don't see why the resistance, all of your arguments against Digital on GMRS prove my point that there are some people that are completely resistant to change, for no other reason that they don't like change.

I am speaking on facts not emotional arguments. Fact: there already exist other services that meet those needs better and without needing to change any rules.

Fact: what you are proposing is not compatible with millions of functional pieces of consumer hardware already on the market and in use.

Fact: GMRS is not a substitute for ham radio or part 90.

I think it's more than possible especially considering that digital and FM are existing nicely together in the part 90 world,

Not always, in my profession I spend considerable time chasing down rogue interference to my analog 800MHz part 90 LMR public safety radio system.
Some of it comes from digital modulation sources.

as I am able to listen to itinerant frequencies in the same geographic area that are on DMR, FM, and NXDN without interfering with each other (In fact I don't believe they are even aware of each other)

Just because you can listen on your scanner and don't hear anything doesn't mean interference isn't happening on the FNE side or the subscriber units. I am sure they are unaware of each other. Fact: DMR subscriber units don't even have a "monitor" function.

Let me know when you're in front of some real test equipment like a service monitor with spectrum analyzer and start gathering some real data.

We also manage to coexist on MURS just fine with FM voice, Gate Sensors, and Digital Data on the same frequency.

None of those uses involve high powered infrastructure like repeater stations sharing the same limited frequencies. Apples to oranges.

 

[Project25_MASTR]

I think digital modes bring a lot to the table. Especially the ultra-narrow compliant modes. Reason being, it's getting harder to find non-forced narrow equipment (new). There was talk at some point about narrowbanding GMRS (which I don't think would go over well). Due to the negatively viewed aspect of narrowbanding based on experiences from the challenges faced by the commercial users there's not a trade off for the users of the service. However, if digital were to be allowed you'd have enough migration over to digital (which for the most part is already narrowbanded) that over time the service would narrowband itself due to equipment and the amount of people wishing to partake in digital operations.

As far as stepping on simplex users, its going to happen. You can't avoid it as BCLO works on the mobile/handheld, not the repeater (how can it without a receiver and transceiver, which none of the type accepted Part 95 repeaters even feature). Analog and digital can co-exist on the same frequency because as it is we already deal with the occasional "Get Off MY Frequency" in analog and analog. If most of the users are consumers...they technically aren't smart enough to know the difference between digital modulation and run of the mill noise that cheap consumer products are susceptible to.

Just some observations. I do think digital has a place in GMRS (it may even bring more revenue to the commission in the form of more wishing to become licensed). I do also believe the scope and purpose of the service needs to be brought out of the 1980's. Here's another random thought, if GMRS is supposed to be such a short range service, why isn't there an ERP limit on the paired frequencies? Or isn't a tower technically a structure (there is not definition to what defines a structure in Part 95)? Or generally speaking, the FCC measures transmission heights from the base of the antenna. So if I have a 19' DB-413 mounted on top of a tower 400' in the air it technically still is below the 25 ft maximum limit set by the rules but also has the potential to have an ERP of over 790 W. Just things to think about..

jaybailey416,
I don't know how familiar you are with the XPR line of repeaters but if you didn't know, the site connect networking only works in DMR. Won't work in analog or mixed mode (Motorola's way of suggesting you to make the digital upgrade). If you are looking for something that will network in analog, mixed mode, and digital check out the offerings from Simoco. I think it may also be a feature with Hytera.

 

[KB7MIB]

The 25' height limit only applies to Small Base Stations that operate on the 7 interstital channels shared with the FRS. It does not apply to regular base or control stations, or repeaters, on the 8 main channels.

John
WPXJ-598
Peoria, AZ

 

[johnls7424]

First and foremost you would not be hearing DMR ( or as many of you keep referring to it as MotoTRBO) or NEXEDGE anyway on a FRS/GMRS analog radio anyway. Even if being used on the same frequency even with the same tone code. That is a big issue that's hard to enforce as it is. Businesses migrating to a digital format without frequency coordination or amending their existing license ( letting it expire too) and operating in a digital format under another licensed frequency w/o the end user knowing. Like others have said you could get a 15 dollar dongle to monitor well just about anything out there to help figure out what your actually listening too, but it's never worth someone's sole time in life to do that. Also the FCC does enforce rules and regulations, however it does have to be worth their time. They are not coming out, investing thousands or tens of thousands in equipment useage, field agents overtime pay and benefits for you to be just suspecting someone's interfering with your Communications. Yes they still do use triangulation to pin point interference and illegal activity, but once again it costs them ( or US the tax payers) lots of money. Complain about someone pirating your business banded licensed frequency they may say " okay" and that's it. The metropolitan radio station broadcasting in FM calls them telling them someone is overpowering their 35,000 watt station and they will be out in the snap of a finger.

I don't doubt there is people operating on digital on FRS/GMRS frequencies. Yes by FCC guidelines it's illegal. I'm sure it's not isolated to one region or another either. So therefore it's just going to be an issue that will go most likely unresolved because it's too big to enforce and not bothersome overall.

 

[03msc]

First and foremost you would not be hearing DMR ( or as many of you keep referring to it as MotoTRBO) or NEXEDGE anyway on a FRS/GMRS analog radio anyway. Even if being used on the same frequency even with the same tone code. That is a big issue that's hard to enforce as it is. Businesses migrating to a digital format without frequency coordination or amending their existing license ( letting it expire too) and operating in a digital format under another licensed frequency w/o the end user knowing. Like others have said you could get a 15 dollar dongle to monitor well just about anything out there to help figure out what your actually listening too, but it's never worth someone's sole time in life to do that. Also the FCC does enforce rules and regulations, however it does have to be worth their time. They are not coming out, investing thousands or tens of thousands in equipment useage, field agents overtime pay and benefits for you to be just suspecting someone's interfering with your Communications. Yes they still do use triangulation to pin point interference and illegal activity, but once again it costs them ( or US the tax payers) lots of money. Complain about someone pirating your business banded licensed frequency they may say " okay" and that's it. The metropolitan radio station broadcasting in FM calls them telling them someone is overpowering their 35,000 watt station and they will be out in the snap of a finger.

I don't doubt there is people operating on digital on FRS/GMRS frequencies. Yes by FCC guidelines it's illegal. I'm sure it's not isolated to one region or another either. So therefore it's just going to be an issue that will go most likely unresolved because it's too big to enforce and not bothersome overall.

I'm not sure what you mean by this. If you have an analog only radio on a frequency and are using no tone you would most certainly hear the motorboating noise of DMR or NXDN (or NEXEDGE as you keep referring to it as) and that would be the issue.

You can drive down the interstate at 10 over the speed limit and say "no cop is going to stop me because I'm not driving crazy" and that may be true for many miles...but then you top that hill or round that bend and there he is, an officer in the median who clocks you with his radar and pulls you over. Ticket issued. But hey, no cop was going to stop you, right? It was just 10 mph over. Oops, now you have a fine.

Don't assume that just because it doesn't happen every day all around the country that it won't.

 

[dsalomon]

I have an AE license - yet I bought an overpriced GMRS license because you don't break laws just because you disagree with them or others break the law. The correct syntax is to obey the law while working to change the law through the legal process. I have helped roll back some restrictions to our town's ordinances, so the legal process may be slow but it does work if you make a convincing case.

I wish more people thought like you do. I used to belong to a group of monitors that monitors mostly shortwave frequencies (but also VHF, UHF, etc. including what should be GMRS, MURS, etc.) for a database that is sold to professional security companies and governments. They hear PLENTY of misuse every day in all areas of all bands, including digital and digital encrypted where it should not be. Much of what we hear is illegal activity which, if tracked down by the appropriate agencies of the government, might lead to heavy fines, arrests, stopping of bad things before they happen, etc. Unfortunately, that group's mandate is simply to identify and record, and turn it into the database master for further analysis. Notice that I used past tense. The main reason I no longer belong to that group is their attitude towards illegal activity - they ignore it. It's not their job. They're a private, for profit company.

My 2p worth - it needs to be everyone's job who monitors any part of the radio spectrum, whether for fun or profit, to make the appropriate government agency aware of misuse and/or illegal activity. If more people gave a damn and took action, perhaps less bad stuff would happen. You can't blame the government for everything. Nor can you blame the government for not taking action on stuff that you personally hear but do nothing about.

I know my personal position on this is not a widely held one, so go ahead, flame away.

73 - David, AG4F

 

[SCPD]

MTS2000des is right on!. Want to play digital either get a ham ticket or apply for a business band frequency. With the business freq, you apply and specify your emission type, hell include them all. Run NXDN, Mototrbo, P25 even with encryption. Let's leave GMRS the way it's been for so many years. It's a good service in analog mode and sure there are a few bad apples out there trying to ruin it but that happens on other bands as well. I have my GMRS license and use simplex most of the time to talk to the wife if we are in range or a repeater if need be. So much quicker to ask her something over the radio rather than dialing a cell phone while driving. A little off topic but I rent airtime from a local analok LTR provider and it's dirt cheap with a system that has awesome coverage so have that at my disposal. Have 2 Moto CDM1550 LS+'s and 1 Moto HT1250+ programmed up with all the GMRS freqs and my LTR system talkgroup.

The way GMRS is today is a great communications tool, so as they say if it ain't broke don't fix it. Great responses from MTS2000des on this.

 

[baltimorecs]

I was just having this conversation with a friend but I could not find where digital modes were prohibited on GMRS to show him. I see that comms must be in plain language under 95.183 but I cannot see where only FM is alowed. Can anyone point me to a reference? Thank you.

Edit: I found it. 95.631.

 

[Project25_MASTR]

I was just having this conversation with a friend but I could not find where digital modes were prohibited on GMRS to show him. I see that comms must be in plain language under 95.183 but I cannot see where only FM is alowed. Can anyone point me to a reference? Thank you.

Edit: I found it. 95.631.

If you look, SSB is also an approved emissions...but when was the last time a SSB radio that met the technical specifications was manufactured? Was one ever?

Technically speak, some have GMRS licenses simply because they don't feel they qualify for eligibility under Part 90 (that's why I have a GMRS license because my family and I don't necessarily use it for anything for profit).

(a) Eligibility. Persons primarily engaged in any of the following activities are eligible to hold authorizations in the Industrial/Business Pool to provide commercial mobile radio service as defined in part 20 of this chapter or to operate stations for transmission of communications necessary to such activities of the licensee:

(1) The operation of a commercial activity;

(2) The operation of educational, philanthropic, or ecclesiastical institutions;

(3) Clergy activities; or

(4) The operation of hospitals, clinics, or medical associations.

(5) Public Safety Pool eligibles are eligible for Industrial/Business Pool spectrum only to The extent that they are engaged in activities listed in paragraphs (a)(1) through (4) of this section. Industrial/Business Pool spectrum many not be utilized for the purposes set forth in §90.20(a).

Here's a confusing little technical standard from Part 95...pretty sure it's referring to reference oscillators.

§95.651 Crystal control required.
All transmitters used in the Personal Radio Services must be crystal controlled, except an R/C station that transmits in the 26-27 MHz frequency band, a FRS unit, a LPRS unit, a MURS unit, a MedRadio transmitter, or a WMTS unit.

 

[jbailey618]

Digital on GMRS

MTS2000des - The "If it isn't broken don't fix it" mindset will be the death of two way. Plain and simple.

I have a GMRS License because my whole family can use it. I have an Amateur license because I like to travel, and I like being able to assist in emergencies, and as we all know there are many more amateur radio licenses and repeaters nationwide, linked systems, ROIP, Digital etc... I think there are some great people in the Amateur world, as well as some real crab apples. What I like about Amateur is the community feeling in most cases, people are friendly and willing to help, but then there are others that seriously need a beer or two and to relax and not take life so seriously. The other issue I don't care for in Amateur radio is that much of the equipment people are using (especially in the area I live in) is either tremendously outdated, implemented extremely poorly, and just low quality to begin with. The conversations 9 times out of 10 are about "how does my new 99 cent mic sound Joe?" etc... I'm not a Motorola snob with a new APX 8000 in my hand, but I have to admit, I really prefer commercial equipment and retired my Amateur Kenwood gear for Commercial items like my Dual Band TK-790/890 Setup, TK-830 for GMRS, Motorola XTS5000's, and now I'm looking at Motorola XPR's for DMR. My repeaters are TKR-850's and TKR-820's (thought the 820 is about to be donated to an amateur site and replaced with a XPR8400).

I also have a VHF commercial frequency pair licensed and running on a Kenwood TKR-750, and will be updating that repeater to a DMR repeater as well, as I did license my commercial frequencies for FM as well as NXDN, and DMR. (the coordinator or the FCC made a mistake and added another type of NXDN emission instead of the P25 Voice/Data that was requested, but I'm not worried about that as I have no intention in investing in a Quantar anytime soon when DMR is a better option for my budget).

So, MTS2000des you're more than welcome to your opinion, and you're more than welcome to pick apart my posts and twist it into whatever you wish, but the reality as I see it is that Digital will benefit GMRS (and possibly FRS) just as it is benefiting Part 90 right now with added usability for GMRS license holders and even consumer FRS radios. Even if it's solved by setting aside 4 pairs in GMRS to allow a mix of Digital formats while leaving the other 4 pairs analog only, etc... there is much to be gained in the present and in the future by doing this.

Also, because you seem to like putting words in my mouth, I'll explain why I like GMRS aside from the equipment implementation issues (which are true in many many commercial sites across the nation).

I like that my entire family can use my GMRS repeaters to communicate with each other, and other people in the community, and don't have to understand how to build a radio, but simply how to operate one. I like that we have the option of using high quality part 90 equipment (that's also approved for part 95) with 35 watt mobiles and 5 watt portables. (yes I realize that we can max at 50 watts on a mobile, but Most commercial UHF rigs are 20-40 watts). I like that my GMRS repeater outperforms a 2 meter amateur repeater that's in the same building with an antenna on the same tower in a very mountainous part of Southern Oregon. Some of my amateur radio friends don't believe that it's simply a 40 watt repeater, and refuse to give the credit to the superior filtering, pre-amp, tuning by professionals, and quality feed line and antennas that it's connected to. Sure someone can build an amateur repeater in this manner, but it's not often done, and obviously can't simply be plugged into a rack with existing commercial repeaters on their system and antennas like we have done with my GMRS repeaters.

W5PKY - yes I'm familiar with the XPR, and It bums me out that it is a one way or another choice one has to make, but I'm glad you pointed out some options, I appreciate that.

Obviously I'm in no hurry as the rules are more likely to change eliminating repeater use all together than they are expanding the bands usefulness thanks to people that think like MTS2000des. The argument about interference is really ridiculous in my eyes as anyone with a GMRS license already deals with ridiculous interference from illegal unlicensed use, businesses that don't understand or care about FCC rules, etc. In my area the worst offenders are hotels and logging companies that buy commercial radios online that come "pre-programmed" with GMRS frequencies. So between kids using their "25 mile range!!" Cabbalas special on 462.725 squealing into the radio "can you hear me" 52 times in a row followed by their call button alerts, or Jimmy up on a mountain at 4000 feet with his 45 watt Icom cussing and telling "N" Word jokes while he runs his yarder, and Rhonda the local hotel manager on the 5th floor with her 5 watt Kenwood yelling at licensed GMRS users that "this is a restricted channel and she's calling the city police". etc.. I'd say expanding into the digital realm isn't going to turn the GMRS world on it's side and ruin the band anytime soon.

With some open minds local CERT teams, Community watch, friends, hunting buddies, families camping etc.. could benefit with GPS tracking, talk groups, dispatching. It would be absolutely wonderful to utilize DMR features like calling one person at 3 AM over the repeater without bothering any other person that might be monitoring, or being able to monitor for one talk group while not having to listen to anything else on frequency etc.. Basically anything that is useful in Part 90 is also useful in Part 95 if implemented correctly. But again, everyone has their own opinions, some are just a whole lot more open minded than others. (Anxiously awaiting the direction of this post.. LMAO )

 

[MTS2000des]

MTS2000des - The "If it isn't broken don't fix it" mindset will be the death of two way. Plain and simple.

So say you. I speak from professional standpoint, so my perspective is much broader than one as a hobbyist. Sorry but it is what it is.

I have a GMRS License because my whole family can use it.

Great, that is what it is intended for. It is not intended to be a replacement for ham radio or more advanced forms of LMR like part 90.

I have an Amateur license because I like to travel, and I like being able to assist in emergencies, and as we all know there are many more amateur radio licenses and repeaters nationwide, linked systems, ROIP, Digital etc... I think there are some great people in the Amateur world, as well as some real crab apples. What I like about Amateur is the community feeling in most cases, people are friendly and willing to help, but then there are others that seriously need a beer or two and to relax and not take life so seriously.

Awesome, that what ham radio is great for: experimenting, pushing the envelope, and having fun. The whole EMCOMM thing is overblown IMO, but it is a part of the picture.

The other issue I don't care for in Amateur radio is that much of the equipment people are using (especially in the area I live in) is either tremendously outdated, implemented extremely poorly, and just low quality to begin with. The conversations 9 times out of 10 are about "how does my new 99 cent mic sound Joe?" etc...

So find some like minded hams and converse with them. If not, make some hams out of those who are interested in radio and other stuff you like.That is what I did. The "hi-hi OM" conversations are of little interest to me as well. But you see, unlike GMRS where everyone only has 8 repeater pairs, in ham radio as you know there are dozens of bands and modes to find what interests you.

No need to go change the rules of some other service. Just spin the dial.

I'm not a Motorola snob with a new APX 8000 in my hand, but I have to admit, I really prefer commercial equipment

another great benefit to part 97, we can use whatever gear we wish. As the rules are written now, if it's not part 95 you technically cannot use it on part 95. At least that is what I interpret. I could be wrong, but when it comes to FCC matters, I would much rather ask for permission than forgiveness.

So, MTS2000des you're more than welcome to your opinion,

Yep, it's great to live in a free country.

and you're more than welcome to pick apart my posts and twist it into whatever you wish, but the reality as I see it is that Digital will benefit GMRS (and possibly FRS) just as it is benefiting Part 90 right now with added usability for GMRS license holders and even consumer FRS radios.

I am not twisting anything, just going by what you say. So far, you have offered nothing to counter to the facts I pointed out (as have others), other than rhetoric and emotional responses.

I work with facts. And the facts are, nothing you have spewed forth up to this point is nothing more than "I want...me me me" and not how this would benefit the majority of the users of the service.

If you have something fact based, I'd love to hear it.

I like that my entire family can use my GMRS repeaters to communicate with each other, and other people in the community, and don't have to understand how to build a radio, but simply how to operate one.

Yes, but you aren't the only one nor only family using those 8 channels. What you propose doing could negative impact others. Have you taken that into consideration? or is this just all about what YOU want and YOU desire?

I like that my GMRS repeater outperforms a 2 meter amateur repeater that's in the same building with an antenna on the same tower in a very mountainous part of Southern Oregon. Some of my amateur radio friends don't believe that it's simply a 40 watt repeater, and refuse to give the credit to the superior filtering, pre-amp, tuning by professionals, and quality feed line and antennas that it's connected to. Sure someone can build an amateur repeater in this manner, but it's not often done, and obviously can't simply be plugged into a rack with existing commercial repeaters on their system and antennas like we have done with my GMRS repeaters.

But this has nothing to do with the service. Someone on your site obviously doesn't know how to build a repeater. No shortage of people in that boat. Nothing in this equates to "I should be able to play ham radio on GMRS".

The argument about interference is really ridiculous in my eyes as anyone with a GMRS license already deals with ridiculous interference from illegal unlicensed use, businesses that don't understand or care about FCC rules, etc.

So in other words, by your logic, because everyone else is breaking the law, you should get a pass too? Or the rules changed to suit your fancy? I love this logic, reminds me of a 12 year old kid.

With some open minds local CERT teams, Community watch, friends, hunting buddies, families camping etc.. could benefit with GPS tracking, talk groups, dispatching.

they could also spend the money on part 90, or just get their ham tickets and do all that too.

 

[CaptDan]

I suspect Capt. Dan is trolling, quite possibly having quite a chuckle over this. Not that I ever object to a little bit of harmless, humorous trolling now and then. :-D

I did not say that I am doing that - as I am NOT - his system information was posted on another radio forum dedicated to GMRS systems.

I said that I usually monitor GMRS # 16 in my part of Florida, as do several other users in this area.

 

[c3663b]

I'm sure that these folks though the same thing until their $30,000 bill from the FCC arrived in the mail.

http://forums.radioreference.com/gmrs-frs/268607-30-000-fine-unlicensed-gmrs-operation.html

Looks like the fine was to a business not to an individual. Deeper pockets.