Digital on FRS / GMRS??

[wa1nic]

With a Part 90 license comes frequency coordination. While there is no guarantee of being interference free, there is an attempt to keep licensed user coverage areas from overlapping too much. So, if a Part 90 used decides to implement a digital mode, he isn't going to interfere with some guy operating in FM mode next door.

With GMRS, there is no frequency coordination. One must live with ones neighbors. That being said, mixed mode would not work very well on the limited number of GMRS channels.

Even on CB, SSB and AM do not play well together but the SSB operations are mostly on the upper few channels to avoid intermode interference.

The only way that digital modes would work well on GMRS would be if the band was split and digital was restricted to 1 or 2 of the repeater pairs and one or two of the simplex channels. This may or may not piss off existing users, especially in areas where unused repeater frequencies are in tight supply.

I am not sure what advantage doing digital on GMRS would offer. It's not like it is possible to set up a trunking system there. If privacy is what is desired, digital encryption is illegal one GMRS. The benefits I am not seeing.

Rick

 

[Project25_MASTR]

With a Part 90 license comes frequency coordination. While there is no guarantee of being interference free, there is an attempt to keep licensed user coverage areas from overlapping too much. So, if a Part 90 used decides to implement a digital mode, he isn't going to interfere with some guy operating in FM mode next door.

With GMRS, there is no frequency coordination. One must live with ones neighbors. That being said, mixed mode would not work very well on the limited number of GMRS channels.

Even on CB, SSB and AM do not play well together but the SSB operations are mostly on the upper few channels to avoid intermode interference.

The only way that digital modes would work well on GMRS would be if the band was split and digital was restricted to 1 or 2 of the repeater pairs and one or two of the simplex channels. This may or may not piss off existing users, especially in areas where unused repeater frequencies are in tight supply.

I am not sure what advantage doing digital on GMRS would offer. It's not like it is possible to set up a trunking system there. If privacy is what is desired, digital encryption is illegal one GMRS. The benefits I am not seeing.

Rick

Generally speaking, licensed users are pretty good about coordinating with one another. The problem comes from bubble pack radios (unlicensed use).

DMR for example is talk group driven. The receiver in the subscriber won't unmute. When you go to key, the radio is enabled from the get go with busy channel lockout (it won't step on an active transmission) as per regulations in Part 90.

Same principle as enabling PL when all the kiddos in the neighborhood are running on bubble pack radios. The noise is still there, just not perceived to those running PL.


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[2wayfreq]

Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptDan View Post
"Not sure where in Florida you are hearing this - but below is a post by a GMRS user in northern Florida, a bit north west of Ocala - near the Georgia border.

If your travels bring you thru Dunnellon Florida area - feel free to give me a shout - usually monitor GMRS 16

I am not saying I agree with anything he is doing just sharing something he has posted. Some people just do whatever they feel like, and apparently don't care to hide it.

This system has been upgraded to ASTRO P25 Encryption.Repeater is for family and farm use. I am the sole owner and operator of this repeater under my license XXXXXXX. This repeater is a QUANTAR™ Motorola UHF P25 repeater and so are the rest of the repeaters in this system. All of the radios in this system have been changed to Mototola APX 7000's and APX 7500's. We also have some APX 7000EX radios for farm use. Right now the system is in P25 Convential Encryption. We are curently working on building a P25 Phase II trunking system and we will be using all of GMRS. The system will soon cover all of east north Florida."

What's wierd about this is, If they can afford an Phase II Trunking system, They can afford Business UHF Licenses. Why use GMRS?

 

[wa1nic]

If he actually does this, it will be hard to run under the radar,

 

[sfd119]

This system has been upgraded to ASTRO P25 Encryption.Repeater is for family and farm use. I am the sole owner and operator of this repeater under my license XXXXXXX. This repeater is a QUANTAR™ Motorola UHF P25 repeater and so are the rest of the repeaters in this system. All of the radios in this system have been changed to Mototola APX 7000's and APX 7500's. We also have some APX 7000EX radios for farm use. Right now the system is in P25 Convential Encryption. We are curently working on building a P25 Phase II trunking system and we will be using all of GMRS. The system will soon cover all of east north Florida."

What's wierd about this is, If they can afford an Phase II Trunking system, They can afford Business UHF Licenses. Why use GMRS?

Yeah, I call BS on that.

 

[wa1nic]

"using all of GMRS"... seems like that should be worth a whopper fine.

 

[Project25_MASTR]

"using all of GMRS"... seems like that should be worth a whopper fine.

In all fairness, nothing says you can't trunk on GMRS (though that would be extremely poor operating practice especially because I doubt there are even 1200 users in the area). But digital is the current issue.


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[wa1nic]

It doesn't say you cant analog trunk, but setting up trunking without using a data channel would be difficult.

 

[jbailey618]

Digital GMRS

LOL. GMRS 16? Where is that, in 700mhz? GMRS doesn't have 16 channels to begin with.

I'm sure the person meant 462.575 which is referred to as GMRS 2 or on a FRS/GMRS bubble pack radio it's indeed CH. 16 out of 22 chancels. The combination of FRS/GMRS has caused plenty of channel naming confusion.

 

[jbailey618]

I seriously hope that someone petitions the FCC to allow Digital use, specifically DMR because because of it's ability to operate as TDMA in conventional mode, and the abundance of choices now for DMR radio, Vertex Standard, Tait, Kenwood, RCA, Connect Systems, Hytera, Harris, Kirisun, Simoco, Sepura, and BFDX.

This is a far better utilization of the band, brings forward many more capabilities for two way radio that families and organizations such as community watch groups, and disaster preparedness groups can and will utilize, better battery life, less interference, cleaner communications, etc...

Add to this, second hand Vertex and Moto DMR repeaters are available on the second hand market, the idea of repeater owners upgrading to new digital equipment and running them in "Mixed Mode" or IP Site Connect brings forward many more possibilities as well.

Not pushing for Digital emissions in GMRS is more ridiculous and is only dooming the service to slowly die as technology pushes forward. The people that don't believe it should be moved forward allowing new technology baffle me.

 

[ecps92]

Want to use DMR - go to Amateur.

I've seen enough havoc on Business and Public Safety channels by mixing Analog and DMR

Too many combinations, nothing compatible and where/who does an Analog user turn to ?
The FCC?? Who will say, when you identify the suspect....

I seriously hope that someone petitions the FCC to allow Digital use, specifically DMR because because of it's ability to operate as TDMA in conventional mode, and the abundance of choices now for DMR radio, Vertex Standard, Tait, Kenwood, RCA, Connect Systems, Hytera, Harris, Kirisun, Simoco, Sepura, and BFDX.

This is a far better utilization of the band, brings forward many more capabilities for two way radio that families and organizations such as community watch groups, and disaster preparedness groups can and will utilize, better battery life, less interference, cleaner communications, etc...

Add to this, second hand Vertex and Moto DMR repeaters are available on the second hand market, the idea of repeater owners upgrading to new digital equipment and running them in "Mixed Mode" or IP Site Connect brings forward many more possibilities as well.

Not pushing for Digital emissions in GMRS is more ridiculous and is only dooming the service to slowly die as technology pushes forward. The people that don't believe it should be moved forward allowing new technology baffle me.

 

[gewecke]

I seriously hope that someone petitions the FCC to allow Digital use, specifically DMR because because of it's ability to operate as TDMA in conventional mode, and the abundance of choices now for DMR radio, Vertex Standard, Tait, Kenwood, RCA, Connect Systems, Hytera, Harris, Kirisun, Simoco, Sepura, and BFDX.

This is a far better utilization of the band, brings forward many more capabilities for two way radio that families and organizations such as community watch groups, and disaster preparedness groups can and will utilize, better battery life, less interference, cleaner communications, etc...

Add to this, second hand Vertex and Moto DMR repeaters are available on the second hand market, the idea of repeater owners upgrading to new digital equipment and running them in "Mixed Mode" or IP Site Connect brings forward many more possibilities as well.

Not pushing for Digital emissions in GMRS is more ridiculous and is only dooming the service to slowly die as technology pushes forward. The people that don't believe it should be moved forward allowing new technology baffle me.

. The only thing hurting the GMRS band is all the people who keep ragging about the FCC not allowing digital emissions, when the rules specify ANALOG only. As previously said, IF you want to use Dmr then take the test and get your license. Gmrs is not changing. :wink: 73, n9zas

 

[Hans13]

. The only thing hurting the GMRS band is all the people who keep ragging about the FCC not allowing digital emissions, when the rules specify ANALOG only. As previously said, IF you want to use Dmr then take the test and get your license. Gmrs is not changing. :wink: 73, n9zas

I am one who doesn't want to see digital modes in GMRS. IMHO, the service works just fine now and digital could muddy things up; fubar it. GMRS is a good starting point (and for some a destination too) for those interested in using simplex and repeater oprerations at reasonable power levels. There is also some opportunity for learning and limited experimentation to those so inclined. I don't even have a problem with the bubble pack users. Their power levels are so low and typical propagation so poor that it doesn't present a challenge for most of us who use the service every day. The only changes I would make would be to allow more equipment than just part 95 and to make it license by rule. Other than that, I'm quite pleased with it. What I don't think is a good idea would be more complexity, something that digital modes would bring, and more FCC scrutiny, which is something that digital modes would bring as well.

 

[gewecke]

Well said Hans. But a few of the bubble pack talkies on the market Are capable of repeater use but have questionable performance for this. 73, n9zas

 

[Hans13]

Fortunately, and hopefully into the future, the typical bubble pack user won't know how to set up and use repeater settings. At least, it is like that in our AO. Also, if someone doesn't use a realistic sounding call sign on repeaters around here, they tend to get boo-ed off stage by the regulars. If someone knows at least enough to use a plausible call sign, they are left to enjoy the repeater. But, as you point out, performance of repeater capable bubble pack radios probably won't affect much.

(Off Topic: Interestingly, I'm one of the few people out here that bother to look up call signs in the FCC database. The only reason that I do it is to map out propagation because I live on the fringe of all the repeaters in any direction from me and they are all non-local. In planning antennas and other equipment, I try to figure out the limits of the different repeaters under different seasonal and weather conditions. I also find propagation characteristics interesting. If I come across a fictitious call sign, I just ignore that data. I'm only interested in where users are likely hitting the repeater from and about their signal quality. My group is trying to get a tower and repeater set up and the members are relatively far apart so the data also has some immediate application.)