• To anyone looking to acquire commercial radio programming software:

    Please do not make requests for copies of radio programming software which is sold (or was sold) by the manufacturer for any monetary value. All requests will be deleted and a forum infraction issued. Making a request such as this is attempting to engage in software piracy and this forum cannot be involved or associated with this activity. The same goes for any private transaction via Private Message. Even if you attempt to engage in this activity in PM's we will still enforce the forum rules. Your PM's are not private and the administration has the right to read them if there's a hint to criminal activity.

    If you are having trouble legally obtaining software please state so. We do not want any hurt feelings when your vague post is mistaken for a free request. It is YOUR responsibility to properly word your request.

    To obtain Motorola software see the Sticky in the Motorola forum.

    The various other vendors often permit their dealers to sell the software online (i.e., Kenwood). Please use Google or some other search engine to find a dealer that sells the software. Typically each series or individual radio requires its own software package. Often the Kenwood software is less than $100 so don't be a cheapskate; just purchase it.

    For M/A Com/Harris/GE, etc: there are two software packages that program all current and past radios. One package is for conventional programming and the other for trunked programming. The trunked package is in upwards of $2,500. The conventional package is more reasonable though is still several hundred dollars. The benefit is you do not need multiple versions for each radio (unlike Motorola).

    This is a large and very visible forum. We cannot jeopardize the ability to provide the RadioReference services by allowing this activity to occur. Please respect this.

dipole vs vertical antenna

Joined
Mar 30, 2019
Messages
242
Location
Michigan
We don't "think" we know, we know without a doubt that your coax is a radiating part of the antenna and that needs to be fixed. In your case it was using a half wave dipole with gamma match and no choke balun and you simply "proved" that you need a choke balun. The dipole is a balanced antenna and the coax is not so the coax becomes a radiating part of the antenna "system" unless its decoupled from the antenna.

You never want the coax to be a radiating part of the antenna and if you put an effective ferrite choke balun at the feedpoint and not a useless length of coax coiled up, you will isolate the coax from the dipole and the coax length will not matter because its not an antenna radiator any longer.

"We" actually know more than you "think" we know but we just don't tell you until something like this comes up. And if you had asked earlier "we" could have saved you a bunch of hassle "tuning" your coax and pointed you in the right direction saving you a bunch of silly work.
So I assume, using your example then, my whole setup (mast pipe, tower and guy lines) must have radiated being that the coax was inside the 25' mast pipe? Yes, the mast pipe was bent at a 90 at the top which went out to the antenna and the coax was inside the whole way... (unless you are now thinking the pipe acted as the balun or do what ferrite beads would accomplish?)
Not to mention that at the time I had multiple lengths of coax (all Belden 9913) that I tried individually and found that every piece was good BUT the one that I "tuned" for this antenna just so happened to make my receive noticeably better??.. - and not to just my ear either.. Had three other helpers notice the same results...
One more less important thing to mention... I had baluns that I tried but nothing made the dip meter move the whole length of the coax with or without. So with that in mind I considered the balun a load, and where there is a load, there is a loss and so I didn't use one even knowing I had a balanced load connected to an unbalanced transmission line... Not to mention this but a very low SWR too!!!
One more even less interesting thing to mention is that the dreaded RF burn you would have normally experienced with a mic that has a grounded metal screen and RF on the outside of the coax never seemed to occur... Huh, I wonder why?

In hindsight I see that it just makes so much better sense to connect a tuned radio to a tuned antenna using an un-tuned wet noodle then... Since it doesn't really matter, especially if you use a balun or even a tuner with a balun...

Now I feel like getting high... Cuz this ****'s gettin' deep!!! :) I guess I'll just have to go climb my tower and replace the light...
 

prcguy

Member
Joined
Jun 30, 2006
Messages
11,174
Location
So Cal - Richardson, TX - Tewksbury, MA
Bottom line is when changing the length of the coax affects or improves the VSWR, something is wrong and it should be fixed. Changing the length of the coax can make the problem appear to go away but its still there. You have only fooled your SWR meter and possibly yourself.




So I assume, using your example then, my whole setup (mast pipe, tower and guy lines) must have radiated being that the coax was inside the 25' mast pipe? Yes, the mast pipe was bent at a 90 at the top which went out to the antenna and the coax was inside the whole way... (unless you are now thinking the pipe acted as the balun or do what ferrite beads would accomplish?)
Not to mention that at the time I had multiple lengths of coax (all Belden 9913) that I tried individually and found that every piece was good BUT the one that I "tuned" for this antenna just so happened to make my receive noticeably better??.. - and not to just my ear either.. Had three other helpers notice the same results...
One more less important thing to mention... I had baluns that I tried but nothing made the dip meter move the whole length of the coax with or without. So with that in mind I considered the balun a load, and where there is a load, there is a loss and so I didn't use one even knowing I had a balanced load connected to an unbalanced transmission line... Not to mention this but a very low SWR too!!!
One more even less interesting thing to mention is that the dreaded RF burn you would have normally experienced with a mic that has a grounded metal screen and RF on the outside of the coax never seemed to occur... Huh, I wonder why?

In hindsight I see that it just makes so much better sense to connect a tuned radio to a tuned antenna using an un-tuned wet noodle then... Since it doesn't really matter, especially if you use a balun or even a tuner with a balun...

Now I feel like getting high... Cuz this ****'s gettin' deep!!! :) I guess I'll just have to go climb my tower and replace the light...
 
Joined
Mar 30, 2019
Messages
242
Location
Michigan
Sure VSWR is mixed in there and you can add all kinds of trinkets to the transmission line to "make it better" but whatever... That's on you...
Yup, I gotta get the hell off of this forum.. way too many "jonwienke's" out here for my comfort...
So now I am forced to just let you be as wrong as you want to be....
Have a life...
 

prcguy

Member
Joined
Jun 30, 2006
Messages
11,174
Location
So Cal - Richardson, TX - Tewksbury, MA
Ok, so you don't want to learn how things really work and you have your mind made up that tuning the coax length is the way to go. That's fine for you except when you try and convince others of the same folly. That's one of the reasons CB myths keep propagating.

And I am as wrong as I want to be? I understand we have never met and you have no clue about my background so I don't take that as anything derogatory. A long time ago I had experiences like yours and thought tuning the coax was something you had to do. But I was 14 or 15 years old back then. At some point one of my early mentors went over how things really worked and it was eye opening and further conversations about how things really work probably led me to the rewarding career I had. If I told him back then to just keep being as wrong as he wants to be we wouldn't be having this awkward conversation, so focus your anger on that idiot.

Sure VSWR is mixed in there and you can add all kinds of trinkets to the transmission line to "make it better" but whatever... That's on you...
Yup, I gotta get the hell off of this forum.. way too many "jonwienke's" out here for my comfort...
So now I am forced to just let you be as wrong as you want to be....
Have a life...
 

GadgetGeek

Member
Joined
Sep 12, 2013
Messages
55
Location
Bergen County, NJ
Tried an 11 meter dipole many years ago. Did not work as well as an Antron 99. I think part of the reason is because you can usually get the vertical higher than the dipole. Height is might.
 

MindenJoe

Member
Joined
Feb 17, 2021
Messages
26
Location
Minden, NV
I have a dipole I built with 12 gauge wire under the eaves of our roof. It's not the ideal height, but it can reach 4-8 miles locally and does a decent job with skip. I rarely talk local as there is not much traffic and use it mainly for skip on sideband. I run barefoot and I'm surprised how well it does. Yesterday was a great day for skip and I made around a dozen contacts. I've built another dipole and I'm going to mount it up high between two tall trees.
 
Top