Discone or whip antenna for HF?

[debojitacharjee]

I want to know which is best for HF reception, a discone or a whip antenna?

For MF reception, only loop antenna is best or any other antenna can also be used?

 

[TAC4]

We already answered these questions in past threads you posted.
So I am officially signing off from this thread. Toodaloo

 

[merlin]

Discone for HF is going to be huge, even 50 MHz can take up most of a small back yard.
Best bet for HF confined space is a mag loop or if you have the real estate, a dipole in a number of configurations.
My best was a three wire folded dipole. 90 foot long and 50 foot high.
Check out HF mini whips.

 

[debojitacharjee]

Discone for HF is going to be huge, even 50 MHz can take up most of a small back yard.
Best bet for HF confined space is a mag loop or if you have the real estate, a dipole in a number of configurations.
My best was a three wire folded dipole. 90 foot long and 50 foot high.
Check out HF mini whips.

HF range is only upto 30 MHz. If such antennas take so much of space then why do radio receivers come with a 1ft long whip antenna?

I heard that a mag loop antenna is prone to EMI and not suitable for HF.

Can I use a passive loop antenna for HF?

Why this dipole antenna has discone elements?

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[dlwtrunked]

1. HF range is only upto 30 MHz. If such antennas take so much of space then why do radio receivers come with a 1ft long whip antenna?

2. I heard that a mag loop antenna is prone to EMI and not suitable for HF.

3. Can I use a passive loop antenna for HF?

4. Why this dipole antenna has discone elements?

GRA-D220 144/440/900/1200MHz Two Way Radio Mini Sanner Discone Antenna, 2M/70cm | eBay

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1. Its only sent a portable antenna on such radios. There is no actually *good* portable HF antenna. Those wanting a good HF antenna are going to pick one of their own choice.
2. Wrong. In fact, they are one of the most efficient solutions against EMI if a small antenna is being used. (You misunderstood something.)
3. Yes, but generally, unless it is a very big one, it will only work well on exceptional high gain receiver like the Airspy HF+ Discovery (where it works very well)
4. That is actually a discone antenna with added whips to give better performance on certain frequencies. It is a very poor HF antenna and is not designed for such. It does make a nice desktop VHF/UHF antenna but a high better discone will greatly outperform it.

 

[N1EXA]

Discone for HF is going to be huge, even 50 MHz can take up most of a small back yard.
Best bet for HF confined space is a mag loop or if you have the real estate, a dipole in a number of configurations.
My best was a three wire folded dipole. 90 foot long and 50 foot high.
Check out HF mini whips.

Need a good Size Yard for an HF Discone - I agree Merlin !

Ive had the Best luck with Delta Loops - All you need is the wire a 4:1 Balun and some space !

Delta Loop for HF

Pete N1EXA

 

[ka3jjz]

SDRs like the SDRPlay are really what passive loops like the YouLoop are for. If you are using a SDR, you already have a very sensitive radio, it doesn't take much antenna to make them work well.

We have MANY commercial loops, and even a few homebrew designs in our loops wiki here....and many work just fine in the MW area too

Loops - The RadioReference Wiki

wiki.radioreference.com

Mike

 

[merlin]

Need a good Size Yard for an HF Discone - I agree Merlin !

Ive had the Best luck with Delta Loops - All you need is the wire a 4:1 Balun and some space !

Delta Loop for HF

Pete N1EXA

Looks like a 10 meter setup, seen similar before and no doubt works given the cost and work.

 

[debojitacharjee]

1. Its only sent a portable antenna on such radios. There is no actually *good* portable HF antenna. Those wanting a good HF antenna are going to pick one of their own choice.
2. Wrong. In fact, they are one of the most efficient solutions against EMI if a small antenna is being used. (You misunderstood something.)
3. Yes, but generally, unless it is a very big one, it will only work well on exceptional high gain receiver like the Airspy HF+ Discovery (where it works very well)
4. That is actually a discone antenna with added whips to give better performance on certain frequencies. It is a very poor HF antenna and is not designed for such. It does make a nice desktop VHF/UHF antenna but a high better discone will greatly outperform it.

Mag loop and discone are for VHF only but are not good for HF. I need a solution for HF reception.

So, what is the best solution for receiving shortwave broadcast without fading?

Can any radio receiver receive shortwave bands without fading?

 

[ka3jjz]

Mag loops are great for HF- where you heard otherwise is simply untrue.

As for fading, that is a function of propagation - while an antenna can partially offset this, there is no simple cure. It's greatly impacted by solar activity - keeping an eye on sites like spaceweather.com will let you know when the sun is kicking up its heels

Mike

 

[debojitacharjee]

Mag loops are great for HF- where you heard otherwise is simply untrue.

As for fading, that is a function of propagation - while an antenna can partially offset this, there is no simple cure. It's greatly impacted by solar activity - keeping an eye on sites like spaceweather.com will let you know when the sun is kicking up its heels

Mike

I am not talking about occasional fading but the ones that happen everytime with most distant shortwave signals. Is it the radio receiver to be improved on this? Can a better AGC could mitigate this? Or is it the sensitivity of the receiver?

 

[dlwtrunked]

Mag loops are great for HF- where you heard otherwise is simply untrue.

As for fading, that is a function of propagation - while an antenna can partially offset this, there is no simple cure. It's greatly impacted by solar activity - keeping an eye on sites like spaceweather.com will let you know when the sun is kicking up its heels

Mike

Not in my comparison but it likely depends on what one defines as "great" and compares it with.

 

[dlwtrunked]

Mag loop and discone are for VHF only but are not good for HF. I need a solution for HF reception.

So, what is the best solution for receiving shortwave broadcast without fading?

Can any radio receiver receive shortwave bands without fading?

The best way to counter fading (and it will not be perfect) is to use a receiver capable of diversity receptions where it is equipped for two antennas and has such a mode. Also, experiment with the AGC setting, if you have one, and you may find a setting that you like better. Otherwise, you are left yelling at the ionosphere to say "stop it" but I do not think it will listen.

 

[debojitacharjee]

The best way to counter fading (and it will not be perfect) is to use a receiver capable of diversity receptions where it is equipped for two antennas and has such a mode. Also, experiment with the AGC setting, if you have one, and you may find a setting that you like better. Otherwise, you are left yelling at the ionosphere to say "stop it" but I do not think it will listen.

Does the sensitivity of a radio receiver matters? A radio with higher sensitivity will have less fading?

 

[dlwtrunked]

Does the sensitivity of a radio receiver matters? A radio with higher sensitivity will have less fading?

On HF, most receivers are sensitive enough.

 

[paulears]

The amount of fading will be exactly the same, all that changes is the sensitivity of the individual receivers. A sensitive one might still hear in the noise.

You seem to be sucking up info like a Hoover, but getting really confused by things that are explained poorly - like the VHF and above discone you put a picture up of - it is NOT a dipole, it's a wide band antenna - it's mode of operation uses the disc and the cone to make the antenna resonant usefully at a range of frequencies. You could describe it as a dipole of sorts, but the mode of operation is different.