Discone Too Good ??

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dtravers

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Well Folks I am STUMPED.
I installed a new discone in the attic, 3rd Floor. Thirty Foot RG 8 cable to BC 9000XLT. Now all AM Band stations,
Civil & Mil Aircraft and some FM stations MUST have ATT engaged or no signal at all. Could this be front end over load or maybe something else? How can I fix this?
 
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N_Jay

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dtravers said:
Well Folks I am STUMPED.
I installed a new discone in the attic, 3rd Floor. Thirty Foot RG 8 cable to BC 9000XLT. Now all AM Band stations,
Civil & Mil Aircraft and some FM stations MUST have ATT engaged or no signal at all. Could this be front end over load or maybe something else? How can I fix this?

Sounds lik eoverlaod, but I would say the front end of the radio is not good enough, rather than the antenna being too good!
 

SAR923

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It's front end overload. I don't know the exact specs of the BC 9000XLT but it's a pretty old scanner and I suspect it's only double conversion. As such, it's going to have a problem with front end overload as it gets more signal. You can try an in-line FM trap that's available at Radio Shack to see if it cuts down on some of the overload. I had a similar problem with my Pro 96 and the FM trap made a noticeable difference.
 

pro92b

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The BC9000 is triple conversion but is apparently still being overloaded. The discone is more efficient in the FM broadcast band than an antenna made for just the scanner bands. The result is often overload and the FM band filter mentioned in the previous message may help a lot.
 

timmer

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I agree about the fm trap. I have and use one from R.S. and it works great and solves alot of problems. Also, a variable attenuator, also from R.S., is another great fix for overload from an outdoor antenna. I use one of these, also, and it works good.
 

Al42

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cassidy1190 said:
what is front overload?
Front end overload. The front end - the first stage after the antenna - getting overloaded due to 1) too strong a signal or 2) poor front end design.

We used to use the final amplifier of the transmitter from the Motorola T44 as a pre-amp. It had 2 advantages - 1) it was a shielded box, mounted on the chassis. Just take out the mounting screws and we had a complete amplifier. 2) It was designed for about 5 watts input! So unless you accidentally connected it directly to a transmitter, it was impossible to overload it. Even connecting it to an antenna that was a few inches from an antenna connected to a high-powered transmitter wouldn't faze it.

Front end overload causes all kinds of problems, all resulting in terrible, or worse, reception. It's why modern scanners have built-in attennuators.
 

cassidy1190

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thats interesting...I notice ever since I started using a preamp with my pro-2052 my reception just got worse. Maybey front end overload is my problem.
 

kb2vxa

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Hi all,

Hoo boy, Windsor/Detroit like any large metropolitan area is the pits when it comes to RF pollution. If it were light you could see it from another galaxy, if you want a good idea what I'm talking about just look at a night satellite image and see how we glow in the dark.

Specifically, the problem is desensitization or "desense" which is yet another way front end overload shows up but because it's so drastic it takes a whopping bit of signal to do it. Since the receiver is blocked altogether this sounds like something VERY strong, VERY close.

Most often it shows up as intermodulation or "intermod" which is signals mixing together one atop the other with some showing up alone where they don't belong. That I have noticed with my 2M mobile while passing commercial towers making reception momentarily impossible.

Being a ham operating on VHF/UHF I have encountered desense but only when a powerful transmitter is operating VERY close to me. I would then suggest that the offending frequency or frequencies be located and blocked appropriately. An FCC database search is a good place to start, the listings give transmitter locations in latitude and longitude. Another way is to look for nearby towers, antennas and "all the usual suspects", then use a frequency counter to find what needs to be blocked before reaching the receiver. You probably will have to enlist the help of a local ham or your friendly neighborhood technician for this and a broad band preamp ahead of the counter wouldn't hurt. If it's strong enough to trigger a count it's more than enough to knock the slats out of a receiver.

One last thing, your local Amateur Radio club is a great place to look for help and if they can't provide it they know who can. What you're actually looking for is an "RFI comittee" that tracks down sources of interference. One way or another hams are a most helpful lot even if they have this tendancy to push you into getting a ham license. (;->)
 

dtravers

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Well Folks I got Radio Shack FM Trap 15-577C and Attenuator 15-678
BOY What a differance. Reception clear as a bell and recieving stations of over 70 miles on marine and both air bands. The attenuator is Adjustable
from 0 to 20 dB $ 9.99 Well worth it.

Thanks For All the Help.

Have a great holiday weekend and from a paramedic who will be on the
street all weekend BE SAFE.
 

rosnh

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Ok, so let me make sure that I have this straight.

I have a pro-96, and am having a discone antenna put on my roof.
I'm going to need an FM trap and attenuater to cut down on the frontload of my scanner?

Does that cover it? Or is there more that I need to know before proceeding?
 
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N_Jay

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rosnh said:
Ok, so let me make sure that I have this straight.

I have a pro-96, and am having a discone antenna put on my roof.
I'm going to need an FM trap and attenuater to cut down on the frontload of my scanner?

Does that cover it? Or is there more that I need to know before proceeding?

You 'may' need to filter out anything that hits your receiver at levels much higher than what you are trying to receive.
FM broadcast and TV are likely issues, as is cellular and Nextel if you are near a tower.
 
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N_Jay

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rosnh said:
are you saying that i could hear nextel transmissions?

NO!

I am saying that ANY signal in teh bandpass of the receiver (or near that band pass) that is many orders of magnatude above the desired signal will have the effect of reducing the sensitivity of the receiver, and therefor blocking th edesired signal.
 

rosnh

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oh ok, how would i filter that stuff out?? and thanks for the replies. I appreciate the knowlwdge.
 
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N_Jay

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rosnh said:
oh ok, how would i filter that stuff out?? and thanks for the replies. I appreciate the knowlwdge.

you buy a filter that passes the bands you want and attenuates the bands you don't want.

Since FM is teh bigest problem, those filters are easily avaiable at Radio SHack.
 

loumaag

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Of course, for those of us who live out in the sticks, none of this is a problem. :lol:
 

SAR923

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Just try the Radio Shack FM trap first. The Pro-96 already has an attenuator so you probably won't need an outboard attenuator. The trap is only $6 so you can try your discone with and without the FM trap and see if it makes a difference. The easiest way to tell is on the NWS channels. If you find you don't need the FM trap, you can always return it and get your six bucks back but I'm betting you will. I'm 40 miles north of San Francisco so I'm in the semi-sticks but there was still enough strong FM signals that they seriously desensed my Pro 96.
 

rosnh

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which is the preffered cable rg-8, rg-6 or lmr-400?

do i want to solder my connecter pl-259?

where is the best place to put the fm trap? near the antenna or the scanner?
 
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