Disneyland Capacity Max

mwjones

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Update on the two sites - I have fairly high confidence that Site 11 is on top of the Disneyland Hotel (at least 3 antennas):

PXL_20240312_001127049 (Medium).jpg

Likewise, I have strong confidence that Site 12 is on top of Guardians of the Galaxy (no pic for this one but there did appear to be antennas up there hidden amongst the architecture).

Methodology - I took my SDS100, and while parked in the Simba parking lot (the lot behind Pixar Place and Disneyland Hotels for Downtown Disney), and no antenna, Site 11 (860.1825) was coming in just off the bare SMA connector with strong strength, and Site 12 (861.2125) was coming in about 10-20db lower. I then left the parking lot and drove around to Harbor Drive, and Site 12 was pegging the receiver even with just the bare SMA connector as I drove past Guardians, while Site 11 barely registered.

This would make sense that between the two the coverage of one would cover the dead spots of the other.

It's going to take me a few days to fully parse the logs and prepare the RRDB submission once I get back to Texas Wednesday, so I'll throw it to others for their input if I should proceed with naming the sites appropriately.
 

monitor142

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Back in my MSS days taking care of the 900MHz Smartnet system, it was located in the equipment penthouse of the Disneyland Hotel so it would make sense that they are still using that site location for the DMR system and expanding inside the park to fill in the holes.

Nice work!
 

ENGINEERCARL1

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Likewise, I have strong confidence that Site 12 is on top of Guardians of the Galaxy (no pic for this one but there did appear to be antennas up there hidden amongst the architecture).
It may be one or the other, but one of the two sites is Mt. Lukens. The map attached to one of the two licenses had the coordinates for the site.

It would also make sense if he's getting reception in Lake Terrace...

EC
 

mwjones

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It may be one or the other, but one of the two sites is Mt. Lukens. The map attached to one of the two licenses had the coordinates for the site.

It would also make sense if he's getting reception in Lake Terrace...

E
Look carefully at the license, there's 2 frequencies (854.2125 and 857.8625), both licensed for wide-FM analog and NexEdge/IDAS on Mt Lukens, while there's 19 frequencies licensed for DMR at the Anaheim resort. My research focused only on the 19 frequencies at the resort, not on Mt Lukens (and to be honest that threw me off at first as well).
 

ENGINEERCARL1

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Look carefully at the license, there's 2 frequencies (854.2125 and 857.8625), both licensed for wide-FM analog and NexEdge/IDAS on Mt Lukens, while there's 19 frequencies licensed for DMR at the Anaheim resort. My research focused only on the 19 frequencies at the resort, not on Mt Lukens (and to be honest that threw me off at first as well).
TBH, I didn't look THAT closely at the license data. But what you say makes sense. Most of the traffic is going to be in OC. Two frequencies would give them 3 talk paths + control in the SFV for whatever the Mouse is doing at the Animation Center, et al...

Maybe that was an extra benefit Anterix threw in there, or maybe da Mouse wanted it to give up the spectrum...

Carl
 

Eng74

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When they added Galaxy’s Edge they took all the Circle D Ranch animals off site. So they have to bring in and take out the horses everyday. Might need contact with the each to let them know what is needed. Also some of their wear houses are also not on site.so they do need Togo farther than just the parks themselves.
 

mwjones

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When they added Galaxy’s Edge they took all the Circle D Ranch animals off site. So they have to bring in and take out the horses everyday. Might need contact with the each to let them know what is needed. Also some of their wear houses are also not on site.so they do need Togo farther than just the parks themselves.
Good points, might explain why the Guardians site (Site 12) was much "hotter" when in close proximity.
 

mwjones

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All of the updates based on my data collection while visiting LA have been submitted and are pending a DBAdmin to update the RRDB page. For coverage of Site 12 (Guardians) I set the range to 5 miles, although we know it reaches much further (since I was picking it up 17 1/2 miles away) - if someone gets better input as to where the offsite facilities are now located, it might give us a better fine-tuning of the coverage.
 

Eng74

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All of the updates based on my data collection while visiting LA have been submitted and are pending a DBAdmin to update the RRDB page. For coverage of Site 12 (Guardians) I set the range to 5 miles, although we know it reaches much further (since I was picking it up 17 1/2 miles away) - if someone gets better input as to where the offsite facilities are now located, it might give us a better fine-tuning of the coverage.
The new Circle D Ranch is in Norco.
 

mwjones

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The new Circle D Ranch is in Norco.
I found the ranch, and put a virtual measure on it. Line of sight from the ranch to Guardians is 22.7 miles, which is theoretically possible, but with those mountains I suspect would not give good coverage out there (I know in the flat parts of the Central US, 100 Watts of ERP can get 25 miles, but the license says those frequencies are good to 200 Watts ERP. Likewise the license limits mobile use to 30 miles around Disneyland, so that would be the hard upper limit (to avoid interference with other systems.

On the other hand, the Mount Lukens site is 46.1 miles line of sight, has a straight shot through the valley around Pomona and Ontario, and with a 1000 Watt ERP and a 70 Mile radius for mobile users combined with a 5,000+ foot elevation, so it may warrant some further investigation on Mount Lukens as part of this system and is used for the ranch.

Keep in mind, at least in the early 2000's when I worked for the house of Mouse (not at the parks but I was a phone engineer at a call center) they had an extensive telephone network, so the regular communications with the ranch and production operations at the park for animal needs are likely by phone.
 

mcjones2013

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Just a reminder that Disneyland going to 850 MHz was a license swap with Anterix.

Disneyland gave their 935 MHz license to Anterix, and thus Anterix gave their 850 MHz license to Disneyland in exchange.

That Mt. Lukens site on the 850 MHz license *might* just be a remnant from when it belonged to Anterix. But there’s also a chance Disney is actually using it.
 

mwjones

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Just a reminder that Disneyland going to 850 MHz was a license swap with Anterix.

Disneyland gave their 935 MHz license to Anterix, and thus Anterix gave their 850 MHz license to Disneyland in exchange.

That Mt. Lukens site on the 850 MHz license *might* just be a remnant from when it belonged to Anterix. But there’s also a chance Disney is actually using it.
As much as I love Disney history (former castmember from the early 2000's, although I wasn't at the parks), I also love being a bit of a detective, so I set out this Sunday morning to unravel the whole license swap and how Mt. Lukens plays into this thing.

This is a tale of three licenses, WQFF241, WQRM529 and WQLD477 and a whole host of companies.

Let's start with WQFF241 (henceforth the "241" license).

This is the simplest of the 3 licenses, it was licensed to Disney before the online FCC records begin, and in April 2023 the license was transferred, including the 10 frequencies associated with it, from Disney to Anterix. The license still shows the resort as the antenna location, and control point.

Moving on to WQRM529 "529" license.

Things are a little murkier here, but things are starting to get good. In 2013 this license came as the result of tranferring authorization of the frequencies from FCI 900 (a spectrum management firm working for Sprint Corportation) on License WQHX659 to Radio One, which I believe did some of the RF systems for Disney for many years, as the listing shows two sites within the resort. Radio One added the DMR emissions designations, consistent with Disney's use of systems of that flavor. In 2020, Radio One transferred the license to Anterix, with Anterix issuing an extended lease back to Radio One to allow the move off of the frequencies (FCC records say that lease expired in 2021, but unsure if it was extended beyond that since they didn't transfer the 800MHz licenses to Disney until 2023, and Anterix's agreement with the FCC didn't come until I believe 2022). Like the "241" license, the resort is still the listed antenna location, but the control point is a non-descript office building in Westminster (possibly a former Radio One office). There are 10 frequencies also on this license.

Now the important one of them all, the WQLD477 "477" license.

Oh boy, this is a wild one. In December 2009, Mobile Relay Associates was granted the "477" license for 2 frequencies "855.9125" and "857.8625" atop Mr. Lukens, both with Analog voice (20k), Analog data (20k) and Analog NXDN data (4k). In June 2014, a 3rd frequency was added "854.2125" with the same emissions allowances as the original 2 frequencies. In October 2015, the original frequency "855.9125" was removed from the license, leaving "854.2125" and "857.8625" (sound familiar?). In October 2020, the "477" license and two other unrelated licenses were transferred over to Anterix from Mobile Relay Associates.

Fast forward to May 2022, Anterix is clearly preparing to hand this license over to Disney (but not yet). They link the "477" license to a number of other licenses they hold from all around the region:
Those licenses represent 16 unique frequences, which Anterix then added to this license along with 1 new frequency and assigned all 19 frequencies to a new location on the license - the Disneyland resort - with the DMR emissions designation (but didn't change the original two Mr. Lukens frequencies, nor delete Mt. Lukens from the license). At the same time, each of the above licenses are still active with (usually) their 20k FM emissions (thus leaving Disney and others a mess, since Anterix could eventually double dip on those frequencies for someone else, creating potential interference).

Finally, in January 2023, Anterix transferred the "477" License to Disney.

Based on that research, I say that Mt. Lukens is a red herring, and is an artifact of the convoluted mess created by Anterix trying to get their highly prized 936.5-939.5MHz spectrum. It is not likely that Disney uses, nor has any plans to use the Mt. Lukens site, and it can be considered moot.
 

Eng74

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I just miss the good old days when you scan the park. The first time I did it was in 1995. My Dad and I had went to a preview night for Indiana Jones Adventure. We got back to our room that night and I had my Pro-43 listening to all the problems they were having with the attraction. I think I still have that bank still programmed with their old conventional frequencies. Then fighting with the worst trucking scanner I have ever owned the Pro-94 with trunked system.
 

ENGINEERCARL1

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As much as I love Disney history (former castmember from the early 2000's, although I wasn't at the parks), I also love being a bit of a detective, so I set out this Sunday morning to unravel the whole license swap and how Mt. Lukens plays into this thing.

This is a tale of three licenses, WQFF241, WQRM529 and WQLD477 and a whole host of companies.

Let's start with WQFF241 (henceforth the "241" license).

This is the simplest of the 3 licenses, it was licensed to Disney before the online FCC records begin, and in April 2023 the license was transferred, including the 10 frequencies associated with it, from Disney to Anterix. The license still shows the resort as the antenna location, and control point.

Moving on to WQRM529 "529" license.

Things are a little murkier here, but things are starting to get good. In 2013 this license came as the result of tranferring authorization of the frequencies from FCI 900 (a spectrum management firm working for Sprint Corportation) on License WQHX659 to Radio One, which I believe did some of the RF systems for Disney for many years, as the listing shows two sites within the resort. Radio One added the DMR emissions designations, consistent with Disney's use of systems of that flavor. In 2020, Radio One transferred the license to Anterix, with Anterix issuing an extended lease back to Radio One to allow the move off of the frequencies (FCC records say that lease expired in 2021, but unsure if it was extended beyond that since they didn't transfer the 800MHz licenses to Disney until 2023, and Anterix's agreement with the FCC didn't come until I believe 2022). Like the "241" license, the resort is still the listed antenna location, but the control point is a non-descript office building in Westminster (possibly a former Radio One office). There are 10 frequencies also on this license.

Now the important one of them all, the WQLD477 "477" license.

Oh boy, this is a wild one. In December 2009, Mobile Relay Associates was granted the "477" license for 2 frequencies "855.9125" and "857.8625" atop Mr. Lukens, both with Analog voice (20k), Analog data (20k) and Analog NXDN data (4k). In June 2014, a 3rd frequency was added "854.2125" with the same emissions allowances as the original 2 frequencies. In October 2015, the original frequency "855.9125" was removed from the license, leaving "854.2125" and "857.8625" (sound familiar?). In October 2020, the "477" license and two other unrelated licenses were transferred over to Anterix from Mobile Relay Associates.

Fast forward to May 2022, Anterix is clearly preparing to hand this license over to Disney (but not yet). They link the "477" license to a number of other licenses they hold from all around the region:
Those licenses represent 16 unique frequences, which Anterix then added to this license along with 1 new frequency and assigned all 19 frequencies to a new location on the license - the Disneyland resort - with the DMR emissions designation (but didn't change the original two Mr. Lukens frequencies, nor delete Mt. Lukens from the license). At the same time, each of the above licenses are still active with (usually) their 20k FM emissions (thus leaving Disney and others a mess, since Anterix could eventually double dip on those frequencies for someone else, creating potential interference).

Finally, in January 2023, Anterix transferred the "477" License to Disney.

Based on that research, I say that Mt. Lukens is a red herring, and is an artifact of the convoluted mess created by Anterix trying to get their highly prized 936.5-939.5MHz spectrum. It is not likely that Disney uses, nor has any plans to use the Mt. Lukens site, and it can be considered moot.
Good digging. It makes me wish I was still on the west coast, so I could sit in the (now defunct) Kenny Roger's Roasters restaurant in Burbank with a scanner and listen critically to what's coming out of Mt. Lukens on those two frequencies.

EC
 

Eng74

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Good digging. It makes me wish I was still on the west coast, so I could sit in the (now defunct) Kenny Roger's Roasters restaurant in Burbank with a scanner and listen critically to what's coming out of Mt. Lukens on those two frequencies.

EC
Could go to the old Virgin Records where the In N Out is. Too bad they closed the HRO in Burbank when the pandemic hit in 2020.
 
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