DIY safe antenna wire length for clip on to portable SW receiver (C Crane CC Skywave)

[GKLdiy88]

Hi all !

I am getting back into SW listening after roughly about 20 years away from it. I had used a DAK DMR-3000 with the included antenna amplifier and it had worked good even in the big city we used to live in. Anyhow after digging it out of storage the few stations it now gets are all so extremely low in volume you can barely hear them, so I figured all those years of storage was not good for it

So being on a budget but still wanting something reasonably good, after doing much research I ordered a C Crane CC Skywave (not the SSB version).

We now live in a semi-rural area on the edge of a small town, the biggest city being about 25 miles away. My main focus will be listening to SW broadcasts both from the US as well as from overseas, but will also check the airband occasionally since there is a small airport not too far away.

Anyhow, back to the reason for my post, I was doing a lot of research on making a DIY antenna wire, one where you have an alligator clip to clip it to the whip antenna.

Seems there is a wide variety of views as to what length to make the wire so it does a good enough job at improving reception but not so long as to risk overloading the portable receiver (which I read where portables are more prone to overload).

Doing a search online for such info one result was on a web site called SWLing which included this (quote) " To be on the safe side, do not attach any wire to your portable that is in excess of twenty feet in length." (end of quote)

Other results from other web sites mentioned other lengths including 35 feet and one even 100 feet. So you can understand how it can be confusing when there are so many different opinions

I did notice that there are premade antenna wires made to clip to a whip antenna that you can buy, one such one I saw online was 23 feet long, so that made me feel that even around 20 feet must do okay or why would they sell them around that length ?

Now I simply want what will help the model I ordered (the CC Skywave) perform well enough to get overseas broadcasts, if a 20 foot wire inside the house would work, great, if I need longer I just want to be sure what risk there is of overload once you go over 20 feet. Also, IF I decide on running a wire outside, is it really necessary to have some kind of ground protection ? (I'd like to keep things as simple as possible but still safe)

Thanks in advance for any replies !

 

[krokus]

Many radios do not have protection from static, from a long wire antenna. Check the schematic for your radio, looking for diodes across the input leads. It is up to you, if you are willing to risk hooking up the wire without the diodes. (There is a good chance that there will be no problem, but no promises.)

The shortwave landscape has changed in the recent past. Many broadcasters have ceased service, or have one to streaming over the internet. Have you checked out any of the radios you can listen over the net? That old give you an idea of what is available.

 

[GKLdiy88]

Many radios do not have protection from static, from a long wire antenna. Check the schematic for your radio, looking for diodes across the input leads. It is up to you, if you are willing to risk hooking up the wire without the diodes. (There is a good chance that there will be no problem, but no promises.)

The shortwave landscape has changed in the recent past. Many broadcasters have ceased service, or have one to streaming over the internet. Have you checked out any of the radios you can listen over the net? That old give you an idea of what is available.

Thanks for your reply, the SW radio I ordered won't be here till next week, but maybe if I search online for those who have a CC Skywave that are using a long wire antenna I can see if there have been anyone who reported having problems. (I'll have to try out that online listening option you mentioned)

I would imagine that a very long (50 feet or more) outdoor long wire antenna would pose a greater "possible" risk than say maybe a 20 to 25 foot indoor long wire ?

You said the shortwave landscape changed in the recent past with many broadcasters no longer broadcasting over the air, I can definitely believe that and don't doubt what you are saying, but does that mean there are just a lot fewer, but still many left out there to choose from ?

I found a fairly highly rated app that searches for available SW stations you should be able to hear based on your receiver's location and I just tried using it and it listed quite a few stations available, now as to whether I can get most of them clearly from my location I won't know for sure till I get my new SW and try it out.

The android app I am referring to is called: "Skyway Schedules" Skywave Schedules - Apps on Google Play

Thanks again for your help !

 

[GKLdiy88]

I was checking again to be sure as I had noticed a few different brands of long wire reel antennas for clipping onto portable SW whip antennas were all 23 feet long.

That seems to be a standard length for some reason, could it be that those different manufacturers all feel 23 feet is the maximum length to safely clip to a portable without risk of damage from static or is there a different reason ?

The reason I ask is because yesterday I pulled apart some lengths of electrical cord and soldered them together and have a roughly 30 foot wire I attached an alligator clip to one end. (in preparation for my new SW due to arrive this next week)

If 23 feet is a more ideal length (based on those companies making 23 foot wires) then I can cut my wire down to 23 feet.

 

[krokus]

An indoor antenna will have much less problems with static build up, but will also pick a lot more electrical noise from stuff inside your house.

I am not sure why 23 feet is the common size, other than that is what fits in the spool. (Since the have different length built-in whips, the total length is not the factor.)

 

[GKLdiy88]

My CC Crane Skyway (non-SSB) was delivered yesterday, I gave it an initial try out after midnight as I know SW reception is better at night, first I tried it using only the attached whip antenna, then after getting a station I would try clipping on the 23 foot long wire antenna I made with an alligator clip, I was surprised that adding the 23 foot long wire seemed to make very little difference in how the station sounded, it was so slight that it wasn't worth the trade off in mobility so I took it back off. I then tried the same experiment outside with the same results of almost no difference between using just the whip antenna and adding the 23 foot long wire.

I'm not saying a clip on long wire does not work for anyone, but for some reason it didn't make much of a difference for me last night. Now I am not giving up on trying it again occasionally in case it might made a difference with some stations. (butI am glad I tried a homemade long wire instead of immediately buying a reel antenna just in case a 23 foot long wire simply doesn't make a real difference from my location)

Having said all that I was pleased with all the SW stations I was able to pick up using just the whip antenna from inside the house, besides several English speaking broadcasts, one English broadcast might have been from an Asian country based on the accent of the person speaking, also picked up at least 2 Spanish speaking broadcasts and one broadcast I am pretty sure was in French. All that was with just a short period of scanning to check out the radio before going to bed. Also, while AM is tough to receive clearly from being in a semi-rural area about 25 miles from the nearest big city, the FM reception was great, I have a regular AM/FM portable receiver that was a challenge to get even FM stations in clearly, but the Skywave is a big improvement ! Still need to see what aviation transmissions I can get on the air band, but my initial experience with the Skywave overall is that it was a worthwhile purchase given how difficult it had been to get clear radio reception from our semi-rural location using regular radios I already had.

On a side note I recently ordered a Yaesu FT-60R as I also wanted to be able to receive Ham broadcasts, sure I could had just paid almost twice as much and got the SSB version of the Skywave, but being on a limited budget for hobby stuff I figured with the Yaesu FT-60R as a seperate purchase I would also have the ability to transmit after getting my license for which I am now studying.

 

[krokus]

The length of the antenna can make a difference, highly associated with the specific frequency you are using. Along with that, comes the orientation of the antenna to the desired signal, and time of day compared to the frequency. The lower frequencies are better at night, and higher frequencies during daylight hours.

 

[GKLdiy88]

The length of the antenna can make a difference, highly associated with the specific frequency you are using. Along with that, comes the orientation of the antenna to the desired signal, and time of day compared to the frequency. The lower frequencies are better at night, and higher frequencies during daylight hours.

Thanks, and I do understand there are several variables to take into consideration like you said, that is why I am not giving up trying the long wire again, the reason I made my homemade one 23 feet long was thinking if the CC Crane reel antenna they sell is 23 feet then they must feel that length will work in many instances. But I am happy my initial experience showed there were many SW stations I could pick up even just using the whip antenna by itself, so that is a big plus !

 

[majoco]

If the station you received on the whip was reasonably strong, then adding the wire might not have made it sound any better - this is what AGC is supposed to do - make all reasonable signals equally loud. Perhaps a better test would be to attach the wire, then find a weaker signal and then disconnect the wire - you may find that can no longer hear that signal.

 

[GKLdiy88]

If the station you received on the whip was reasonably strong, then adding the wire might not have made it sound any better - this is what AGC is supposed to do - make all reasonable signals equally loud. Perhaps a better test would be to attach the wire, then find a weaker signal and then disconnect the wire - you may find that can no longer hear that signal.

Good point and good idea, thanks !

Also maybe in addition to that idea I could do also a scan at night first without the wire and note what stations I receive, then do a 2nd scan with the wire attached to see if it picks up any stations the whip antenna by itself didn't get.

 

[KB2GOM]

Hi all !

I am getting back into SW listening after roughly about 20 years away from it. I had used a DAK DMR-3000 with the included antenna amplifier and it had worked good even in the big city we used to live in. Anyhow after digging it out of storage the few stations it now gets are all so extremely low in volume you can barely hear them, so I figured all those years of storage was not good for it

So being on a budget but still wanting something reasonably good, after doing much research I ordered a C Crane CC Skywave (not the SSB version).

We now live in a semi-rural area on the edge of a small town, the biggest city being about 25 miles away. My main focus will be listening to SW broadcasts both from the US as well as from overseas, but will also check the airband occasionally since there is a small airport not too far away.

Anyhow, back to the reason for my post, I was doing a lot of research on making a DIY antenna wire, one where you have an alligator clip to clip it to the whip antenna.

Seems there is a wide variety of views as to what length to make the wire so it does a good enough job at improving reception but not so long as to risk overloading the portable receiver (which I read where portables are more prone to overload).

Doing a search online for such info one result was on a web site called SWLing which included this (quote) " To be on the safe side, do not attach any wire to your portable that is in excess of twenty feet in length." (end of quote)

Other results from other web sites mentioned other lengths including 35 feet and one even 100 feet. So you can understand how it can be confusing when there are so many different opinions

I did notice that there are premade antenna wires made to clip to a whip antenna that you can buy, one such one I saw online was 23 feet long, so that made me feel that even around 20 feet must do okay or why would they sell them around that length ?

Now I simply want what will help the model I ordered (the CC Skywave) perform well enough to get overseas broadcasts, if a 20 foot wire inside the house would work, great, if I need longer I just want to be sure what risk there is of overload once you go over 20 feet. Also, IF I decide on running a wire outside, is it really necessary to have some kind of ground protection ? (I'd like to keep things as simple as possible but still safe)

Thanks in advance for any replies !

CC Skywave SSB comes with its own clip-on wire antenna, which I have used to good effect. I believe it is in the 20-23 foot range.

 

[GKLdiy88]

CC Skywave SSB comes with its own clip-on wire antenna, which I have used to good effect. I believe it is in the 20-23 foot range.

Thanks, I don't doubt it can definitely be of benefit, but my 23 foot added wire didn't seem to make a big difference on that initial test, but as other posts mentioned I need to try other tests, did not use the SW last night, but maybe tonight I can try those additional tests.

 

[Engine104]

Thanks, I don't doubt it can definitely be of benefit, but my 23 foot added wire didn't seem to make a big difference on that initial test, but as other posts mentioned I need to try other tests, did not use the SW last night, but maybe tonight I can try those additional tests.

Let us know how it goes.. I am trying the same thing this weekend with my Tecsun PL-660. It does pretty well on HF with the spooled wire antenna that came with the radio, but I am going to try 50' of speaker wire strung in the attic and see how that goes.

 

[GKLdiy88]

Let us know how it goes.. I am trying the same thing this weekend with my Tecsun PL-660. It does pretty well on HF with the spooled wire antenna that came with the radio, but I am going to try 50' of speaker wire strung in the attic and see how that goes.

Neat, let us know how the 50' wire in the attic works as to if it makes a significant difference over ether the whip antenna and the spooled antenna, that would be interesting to know.

I didn't get around to messing with my SW radio last night (but maybe tonight) because I received my new FT-60R HT ham radio yesterday and was focused on messing with that having just got it, so now I need to educate myself on both SW and Ham

 

[Engine104]

Neat, let us know how the 50' wire in the attic works as to if it makes a significant difference over ether the whip antenna and the spooled antenna, that would be interesting to know.

I didn't get around to messing with my SW radio last night (but maybe tonight) because I received my new FT-60R HT ham radio yesterday and was focused on messing with that having just got it, so now I need to educate myself on both SW and Ham

Will do. I don't expect a huge difference over the spooled wire, but the height may help.
Congrats on the FT-60. I have one too. Unfortunately, 2m and 440 in L.A. aren't what they used to be. Either most people have gone to DMR or something, because the analog repeaters are usually pretty quiet.

 

[GKLdiy88]

Will do. I don't expect a huge difference over the spooled wire, but the height may help.
Congrats on the FT-60. I have one too. Unfortunately, 2m and 440 in L.A. aren't what they used to be. Either most people have gone to DMR or something, because the analog repeaters are usually pretty quiet.

I have read online that height does help, not sure how much higher your attic is from where you were using the spool but hey I would think that any extra height should help at least some.

I hope I do at least somewhat better with the FT-60R here in South Carolina than your current experience there in L.A. since the changes you mentioned. After just recently buying the FT-60R as well as a new CCrane Skywave SW radio, it might be a little while before my hobby budget is ready to buy other equipment to get the stuff an FT-60R might not get

After just getting my FT-60R delivered yesterday I was messing around with it for a short while last night casually scanning thru some frequencies simply seeing if I could happen onto a transmission, besides a few frequencies that sounded like a motor in the background I finally happened onto my first audio voice reception, the weather frequency 162.400 hey, I was happy just to know my new HT could pick up a voice transmission

Anyhow, while waiting to take the test and get my license so I can transmit, I need to do more research to see what frequencies I might be able pick up some transmissions on. From what I've been reading online I know some transmissions out there are trunked and/or encrypted, but I know there should be some that can be received with an FT-60R, hey, I'm still learning

 

[Engine104]

I have read online that height does help, not sure how much higher your attic is from where you were using the spool but hey I would think that any extra height should help at least some.

I hope I do at least somewhat better with the FT-60R here in South Carolina than your current experience there in L.A. since the changes you mentioned. After just recently buying the FT-60R as well as a new CCrane Skywave SW radio, it might be a little while before my hobby budget is ready to buy other equipment to get the stuff an FT-60R might not get

After just getting my FT-60R delivered yesterday I was messing around with it for a short while last night casually scanning thru some frequencies simply seeing if I could happen onto a transmission, besides a few frequencies that sounded like a motor in the background I finally happened onto my first audio voice reception, the weather frequency 162.400 hey, I was happy just to know my new HT could pick up a voice transmission

Anyhow, while waiting to take the test and get my license so I can transmit, I need to do more research to see what frequencies I might be able pick up some transmissions on. From what I've been reading online I know some transmissions out there are trunked and/or encrypted, but I know there should be some that can be received with an FT-60R, hey, I'm still learning

Welcome aboard! We need more hams.

I've been using my FT-60 to monitor local fire departments as it has a wide coverage receiver. It works really well for that.

 

[GKLdiy88]

Welcome aboard! We need more hams.

I've been using my FT-60 to monitor local fire departments as it has a wide coverage receiver. It works really well for that.

Great, good to hear your area still allows your FT-60 to be of use there in your location. I guess it must just be some areas with many less frequencies available because overall I got the impression from what I read online and also in another forum that the FT-60R is still fairly popular as far as HT radios go.

 

[Engine104]

The FT-60 is a great little HT. I do use it on my club repeater, as well as monitor analog fire and PD frequencies.

 

[Boombox]

DSP portable SW radios seem to do well off the whip, and I think the CCrane Skywave has a DSP chip. The RF amp section that fronts a DSP chip is pretty robust, and usually the DSP chip will tune to whatever antenna is being used.

My Grundig G2 (which has a SiLabs DSP chip) works well off the whip. Sometimes, I have to shorten the whip to maximize reception. Often, when I clip my 25 ft. indoor wire to it, it just increases the noise level.