DMR Public Release

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RK3AAG

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Excluding the missed Direct Channel decode, I hate anothing thing in Uniden in case of DMR. It doesn't show you TGID in Discovery mode and doesn't log it at all. It shows you Color Code, but not TG. What the hell is this? It shows it well when in Custom Search, so it can do that. But I need these data in Discovery mode.
 

UPMan

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Not sure what the question is. In Trunking Discovery it is only going to monitor the trunked system you select to run discovery on.
 

RK3AAG

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I no need trunking only Discovery, because I discovery conventional activities. I need Conventional Discovery mode that can do analog + digital with CC/TGID logging. Mixed mode as now + TGID logging (which now is missed). Ad you know, TGID is used also in conventional DRM but not only trunking.
 

crash1

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Yeah the DMR isn't that good when I'm in trunking mode it misses conversations all the time I think it's because it doesn't show The Talk group all the time sometimes it shows that talk group with and sometimes it doesn't works good in conventional mode just not trunking mode DMR Trunking needs work it's not consistent
 

UPMan

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TGID is only supported with trunking. You need do trunking discovery for TGID catching.
 

sibbley

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You can see TGID if programmed conventionally. You don't need discovery to find TGID, Color Code, or Slot. I use ProScan to log all the Analog and Digital info. ProScan would be your best bet for mixed mode frequencies.
 

crash1

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I am monitoring a capacity Plus system right now and it is missing replies all the time I have all the talk groups in when I monitor an individual talk group it misses the replies and during scan it doesn't pick up half the time it is a one frequency capacity Plus system
 

RRR

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TGID is only supported with trunking. You need do trunking discovery for TGID catching.

Can this be altered or changed with future firmware? It is very apparent TG ID's are essential to monitoring something on a DMR frequency. Especially if entered within a mixed group of other frequencies. The TG ID's tell you what/who you are listening to. Otherwise, might as well just have a display with "Channel 1, channel 2...." etc.
 

sibbley

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Otherwise, might as well just have a display with "Channel 1, channel 2...." etc.

Or no display at all.

Being able to program a channel with TGID, CC, and Slot is what I was looking for from the very beginning. Most DMR in my area is conventional. Only two Con+ systems. I have to program conventional with CC only, because One Frequency System is just too damn slow with more than one frequency per site. Even with only one frequency, it misses transmissions. Or even worse, bogus TGID's.

MotoTRBO Systems work pretty well, so why wouldn't One Frequency Systems? What is wrong with making TGID, Slot, and CC programmable under a conventional system? Why would Uniden not want to make this available?
 

jonwienke

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What is wrong with making TGID, Slot, and CC programmable under a conventional system? Why would Uniden not want to make this available?

Because it's a stupid and inefficient way to scan a system. Once Uniden fixes the scan hang issue in DMR One Frequency systems, a One Frequency system will scan twice as fast as a hodgepodge of conventional channels, and you won't have to reprogram every time a talkgroup moves to a different timeslot or frequency.
 

Phillipsc84

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Because it's a stupid and inefficient way to scan a system. Once Uniden fixes the scan hang issue in DMR One Frequency systems, a One Frequency system will scan twice as fast as a hodgepodge of conventional channels, and you won't have to reprogram every time a talkgroup moves to a different timeslot or frequency.



And what if I don't want to scan it? What if I want to just chose what I want to hear? And who are these entities that are reprogramming their radios all the time to move talk groups? I can almost bet most users will program their businesses radios once and when they have it working they're not moving talk groups for a long time. And if it's so inefficient why is that how actual radios do it?

The current method also leaves the chance of "false positives" in scanning when more than one frequency has the same color/slot/group programmed. If I'm monitoring two frequencies that both use cc1 and have slot 1 and group 1 then the scanner can't tell that they may be different "channels" since it's looking at all frequencies for just slot and group.


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jonwienke

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The current method also leaves the chance of "false positives" in scanning when more than one frequency has the same color/slot/group programmed. If I'm monitoring two frequencies that both use cc1 and have slot 1 and group 1 then the scanner can't tell that they may be different "channels" since it's looking at all frequencies for just slot and group.

If you have two different talkgroups with the same ID (unlikely) create 2 different systems.
 

jonwienke

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And if it's so inefficient why is that how actual radios do it?

If you're monitoring an actual system, as opposed to a bunch of simplex or Tier II repeater channels, then the "actual radios" operate the way I described. They don't scan each frequency twice (once for each timeslot), they monitor system frequencies for talkgroup traffic, and if they detect traffic on the talkgroup(s) they're looking for, squelch opens and the traffic is played. The unique identifier for traffic is the talkgroup ID, not the frequency or timeslot.

OTOH, if what you're monitoring is a collection of simplex or Tier II repeater channels, then the talkgroup ID isn't necessarily a reliable way to categorize traffic. You can have the same talkgroup ID reused on multiple frequencies and timeslots, so there's not a lot of value in specifying a talkgroup ID in simplex or Tier II repeater channels.
 

Phillipsc84

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If you have two different talkgroups with the same ID (unlikely) create 2 different systems.

It's only as "unlikely" as the programmer makes it. On conventional they don't have to make a separate talkgroup for anything if they don't want to. It's too easy for them to just set it up like this:

Frequency 1 / CC1 / Slot 1 / Group 1 "Channel 1"
Frequency 1 / CC1 / Slot 2 / Group 1 "Channel 2"
Frequency 2 / CC1 / Slot 1 / Group 1 "Channel 3"
Frequency 2 / CC1 / Slot 2 / Group 1 "Channel 4"

This is not an impossible scenario as I see it where I am am. As far as the end users know those are 4 different channels. All I'm saying is it CAN be more simplified to set that up and not have to create overly complex systems to accomplish this. In regard to scanning I'm not sure how this would be any more "inefficient" since in both cases the scanner has to look over each frequency and determine if what it's looking for is there.
 

Phillipsc84

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If you're monitoring an actual system, as opposed to a bunch of simplex or Tier II repeater channels, then the "actual radios" operate the way I described. They don't scan each frequency twice (once for each timeslot), they monitor system frequencies for talkgroup traffic, and if they detect traffic on the talkgroup(s) they're looking for, squelch opens and the traffic is played. The unique identifier for traffic is the talkgroup ID, not the frequency or timeslot.

OTOH, if what you're monitoring is a collection of simplex or Tier II repeater channels, then the talkgroup ID isn't necessarily a reliable way to categorize traffic. You can have the same talkgroup ID reused on multiple frequencies and timeslots, so there's not a lot of value in specifying a talkgroup ID in simplex or Tier II repeater channels.

I'm speaking only of repeater or simplex modes. No trunking at all. that's not an issue here. But in some cases the frequency can be what differentiates two channels when the color code, slot, and talkgroup are the same as in my example above.
 

jonwienke

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I'm speaking only of repeater or simplex modes. No trunking at all. that's not an issue here. But in some cases the frequency can be what differentiates two channels when the color code, slot, and talkgroup are the same as in my example above.

Then you don't have a system, you have a collection of repeaters. In that case, programming as a conventional system makes sense. But as you point out, there's not much point in programming talkgroup IDs because they are not necessarily unique.
 

Phillipsc84

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Then you don't have a system, you have a collection of repeaters. In that case, programming as a conventional system makes sense. But as you point out, there's not much point in programming talkgroup IDs because they are not necessarily unique.



Well and the fact that scanner has no way to program group and slot for conventional dmr. Only color code. To get groups you have to have a DMR One Frequency system which brings us back to my original point... all that's needed to fix this is to add group and slot options to the conventional types.


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