DMR Public Release

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RK3AAG

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TGID is only supported with trunking. You need do trunking discovery for TGID catching.
I no need it, please read above. I need this function in Conventional discovery to catch ANALOG and DIGITAL in one Discovery mode. Also, Uniden can't run 2 different Discovery modes in sequence. So, I cannot leave my Uniden to catch both analog and digital conversations with TGIDs. It's definitely firmware limitation.
 

jonwienke

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The problem is that the talkgroup ID is usually broadcast on the control channel, not the voice channel. So when you're doing conventional discovery and hit on a voice channel, the scanner usually has no way to know the talkgroup ID because it was broadcast on a completely different frequency.

The only guaranteed way to capture the talkgroup ID is to know a bit about the system, enough to catch the ID from the control channel as the transmission is being set up.
 

apcofan

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Excluding the missed Direct Channel decode, I hate anothing thing in Uniden in case of DMR. It doesn't show you TGID in Discovery mode and doesn't log it at all. It shows you Color Code, but not TG. What the hell is this? It shows it well when in Custom Search, so it can do that. But I need these data in Discovery mode.

You mean Custom Search or Quick Search? On Quick Search scanner shows TGID during decoding but in the Custom Search I`ve never seen TGID, only CC. Maybe I missed something? Any ideas?
 
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DaveNF2G

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The problem is that the talkgroup ID is usually broadcast on the control channel, not the voice channel. So when you're doing conventional discovery and hit on a voice channel, the scanner usually has no way to know the talkgroup ID because it was broadcast on a completely different frequency.

The only guaranteed way to capture the talkgroup ID is to know a bit about the system, enough to catch the ID from the control channel as the transmission is being set up.

The above makes no sense in the context of a conventional repeater. There is no control channel on some other frequency.
 

jonwienke

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And you don't do Trunking Discovery on a simple repeater.
 

RRR

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Point blank, the "Talkgroup ID" is who is talking on the radio system.

To not display talkgroup or slot information while scanning DMR channels makes no logical sense. On a single freq system, the color code is irrelevant for a scanner. P25 conventional and trunking systems display talkgroups on Uniden scanners. I can enter a single VHF P25 frequency into a group of other analog and digital frequencies in a bank and my 996P2 will track and monitor it just fine. Why can't or won't this be done for single frequency DMR/Mototrbo channels?
 

RK3AAG

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You mean Custom Search or Quick Search? On Quick Search scanner shows TGID during decoding but in the Custom Search I`ve never seen TGID, only CC. Maybe I missed something? Any ideas?
Yes, you missd everything. I am talking about Conventional Discovery. But not about any kind of Search.
 

sibbley

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Because it's a stupid and inefficient way to scan a system. Once Uniden fixes the scan hang issue in DMR One Frequency systems, a One Frequency system will scan twice as fast as a hodgepodge of conventional channels, and you won't have to reprogram every time a talkgroup moves to a different timeslot or frequency.

I do see your point. Programming several of the same frequencies with differing TGID's and Slots is not efficient. I'm not talking about trunked systems though. I'm talking about conventional DMR systems with 4 or more frequencies where the talkgroup never changes slot.

There are users in my area that have 10-12 talkgroups, but only 1 or 2 that I am really interested in hearing. I could simply program frequency, color code, TGID, and slot to just hear those 2 talkgroups. Even trying to do that with One Frequency system, just slows everything down.

Right now I have all my frequencies programmed conventionally with color code. It scans pretty fast but I hear everything on those frequencies and color codes.
 

jonwienke

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There are users in my area that have 10-12 talkgroups, but only 1 or 2 that I am really interested in hearing. I could simply program frequency, color code, TGID, and slot to just hear those 2 talkgroups. Even trying to do that with One Frequency system, just slows everything down.

Right now I have all my frequencies programmed conventionally with color code. It scans pretty fast but I hear everything on those frequencies and color codes.

If you're finding it faster to scan a set of DMR freqs as individual conventional channels rather than multiple freqs in a DMR One Frequency system site, then Uniden has a bug in the current firmware. There shouldn't be any scan speed difference between the two, or programming a separate One Frequency system for each frequency.

Upman, care to weigh in on this?
 

sibbley

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I would think that One Frequency would work similarly to MotoTRBO trunk in regards to scan speed. MotoTRBO trunk systems work well, and don't really slow things down too much. I've thought there was something wrong with One Frequency Systems since DMR was introduced.
 

werinshades

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I've been reading these posts and can't get a grasp on what is trying to be accomplished. You're asking for a firmware change so you can see Talk group ID's during conventional discovery mode? What I would think is easier is to first figure out the frequency you're listening to what mode is coming through. If it is a MotoTRBO digital mode, I'd go into search mode, park on the frequency and watch the activity. If you're seeing CAP+, CON flash, then you'll have to find the missing frequencies either by searching or going to the FCC database. If it's flashing DMR, then you have a one channel system and no matter what mode, you'll see Talk group ID(s) come up as well as the Radio ID. That's half the fun!

Maybe I'm missing what you're doing here, but I don't see the reason to make a drastic change to firmware that is working flawlessly for the rest of us. If Whistler has the option you're looking for, by all means purchase their scanner and the problem is resolved. You've resurrected a thread which was intended to discuss "new" firmware issues. The MotoTRBO public release has been out a long time, and calling out UPMan to make changes at this point is silly as most here are awaiting to see if NXDN upgrades are in the future.
 

jonwienke

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IThe MotoTRBO public release has been out a long time, and calling out UPMan to make changes at this point is silly as most here are awaiting to see if NXDN upgrades are in the future.

It's not silly if scanning a One Frequency system is significantly slower than scanning an equivalent set of DMR conventional frequencies. That means there is a bug in DMR One Frequency scanning which is hanging the scanner unnecessarily. That is in addition to the bug(s) in decoding DMR simplex.

Some people would like to get the bugs in existing features fixed before shifting the firmware developers' focus to adding new feature.
 

werinshades

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It's not silly if scanning a One Frequency system is significantly slower than scanning an equivalent set of DMR conventional frequencies. That means there is a bug in DMR One Frequency scanning which is hanging the scanner unnecessarily. That is in addition to the bug(s) in decoding DMR simplex.

Some people would like to get the bugs in existing features fixed before shifting the firmware developers' focus to adding new feature.

I'm scanning 1 DMR One Frequency System, and CAP+ Trunking System as well as 2- P25 systems and a Conventional System without any issues that you describe. I'd review my programming again. I would never scan a Trunking System as a Conventional system as my primary means of listening to the system. I'd use it as a tool to discover something new in that system but not primarily. I use Custom Search to find new systems to monitor.

It would appear to me, you might be uniquely programming a MotoTRBO or DMR One Frequency system that the rest of us are not doing. This is why your "issues" are not being addressed perhaps?
 

jonwienke

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I'm not personally seeing the conventional vs One Freq difference in scan speed, but I am having noticeable issues picking up DMR simplex, even after playing with the decode settings.
 

sibbley

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It would appear to me, you might be uniquely programming a MotoTRBO or DMR One Frequency system that the rest of us are not doing. This is why your "issues" are not being addressed perhaps?

I'm the one having the One Frequency System issues. The system I am scanning are NOT trunked. They are multi frequency conventional systems. MotoTRBO systems work fine. If I enter a single frequency into a One Frequency System, that system will work ok, but I will miss transmissions compared to the same frequency programmed conventional using the correct color code. Adding more than 1 frequency to the One Frequency System makes scanning very slow.

I'm open to suggestions. How would you program 4 frequencies as a One Frequency System? I have tried using a different site for each frequency. That seemed to slow things down even more than all frequencies under 1 site.
 

werinshades

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I'm the one having the One Frequency System issues. The system I am scanning are NOT trunked. They are multi frequency conventional systems. MotoTRBO systems work fine. If I enter a single frequency into a One Frequency System, that system will work ok, but I will miss transmissions compared to the same frequency programmed conventional using the correct color code. Adding more than 1 frequency to the One Frequency System makes scanning very slow.

I'm open to suggestions. How would you program 4 frequencies as a One Frequency System? I have tried using a different site for each frequency. That seemed to slow things down even more than all frequencies under 1 site.

I would put a one frequency DMR systems in ID Search Mode with all 4 frequencies programmed to see what is coming up. After you have that figured out, put it back in ID Scan mode.

Just a question, when you put the scanner in Custom Search Mode and these frequencies come up, what is the display showing? DMR, CAP+ CON, DT 3 ?
 

sibbley

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I would put a one frequency DMR systems in ID Search Mode with all 4 frequencies programmed to see what is coming up. After you have that figured out, put it back in ID Scan mode.

Just a question, when you put the scanner in Custom Search Mode and these frequencies come up, what is the display showing? DMR, CAP+ CON, DT 3 ?

Already have the system figured out. These frequencies show as DMR. ID Search, ID Scan, doesn't matter. With 4 frequencies it's very slow.

A bit of background I should have added earlier: I've been monitoring these systems for 2 years using either DSD+ or Vertex and CSI DMR two way radios.

My biggest complaint is that scanning One Frequency Systems is slow going. Which I believe is why I miss transmissions. I'd really just like to know why.

Scanning conventionally is working for my situation.
 

werinshades

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Already have the system figured out. These frequencies show as DMR. ID Search, ID Scan, doesn't matter. With 4 frequencies it's very slow.

A bit of background I should have added earlier: I've been monitoring these systems for 2 years using either DSD+ or Vertex and CSI DMR two way radios.

My biggest complaint is that scanning One Frequency Systems is slow going. Which I believe is why I miss transmissions. I'd really just like to know why.

Scanning conventionally is working for my situation.

Not having the same issue. I just opened up a few of my other DMR One Frequency systems and not seeing any slow scan speeds. 3 DMR One Frequency systems scanning, 3-P25 Trunking Systems, 1 Conventional system scanning on my 536 without issue.

I would have to look for programming issue if I was in your shoes. No firmware issues I can see.
 

jonwienke

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I did a test comparing the scan speed of DMR One Frequency systems vs DMR comventional channels. I chose 128 frequencies, put them in 8 groups of 16, and gave each group a color name. I created a Favorite List with a conventional system and a DMR One Frequency system. In the conventional system, each color is a Department with that color's 16 frequencies. In the DMR One Frequency system, each color is a Site with the same 16 frequencies. So it's an apples-to-apples scan speed test.

I videoed the scan of these two systems, so the relative scan speed can be compared. Scanning the DMR One Frequency system takes about 7 seconds.

OTOH, scanning the exact same 128 frequencies as a conventional system takes less than 2 seconds.

Link to video:
https://1drv.ms/v/s!ApJIS-l4xqPtgrogadYvbZh-mUSjhQ

Conclusion:
There is a bug in DMR One Frequency System scanning; scanning non-trunked DMR frequencies should be just as fast, regardless of whether they are configured as a Conventional or One Frequency System.

Note: The sequence of color groups in both systems is Red, Blue, Green, Yellow, Orange, Purple, Black, White. When the conventional channels are being scanned, sometimes the Department is scanned too quickly for the color name to show in the video. For the conventional channels, Modulation was set to NFM and Audio Options were set to NAC/Color Code Search. Decode was set to Auto/8 for both conventional and One Frequency. The One Frequency system had ID Search turned On.
 
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