DMR Public Release

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sibbley

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Nice way to lay out that test jonwienke. I thought about doing a video, but wasn't sure on the best way to set up for it without having a second 436. That is exactly what I am seeing, hence why I would get more hits programmed conventionally.

Nice job, Thank you...
 

jonwienke

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You're welcome. A 4:1 difference in scan speed may not be noticeable when only 2-3 frequencies are involved, but this test makes it pretty obvious. I hope that clearly demonstrating the problem will accelerate the process of getting it fixed.
 

bearcat

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When I put multiple freqs in my 436 OFT system I have the same slow results. The 396XT has the same slow scan issue. If I put just one freq in those systems it works fine. I know the software for both radios allows entering more than one freq, but I wonder if the true intent is to only enter one freq.

Maybe UPman could chime in on the intended use of OFT
 

werinshades

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I hate to rain on the thread here, but after review my suspicion is the scanner is performing properly. In ID Search Mode, it's searching for a sampling of talk groups from all 4 frequencies where in Conventional Scan mode, the scanner is only looking for activity on the frequencies and once it doesn't hear anything, it moves on.

So far this "issue" doesn't seem to be much of an problem for the rest of us or this forum would be filled with complaints. If I program a DMR system as conventional, the data bursts delay it scanning through as quickly as a properly programmed MotoTRBO system. As I sit here listening to my 536, I am adding and subtracting systems as I scan. I did notice you don't have an FL assigned either, where I do.

If UPMan can add anything here, it would probably help. From the video and description given, I can't see a firmware or scanner issue.
 

Phillipsc84

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I's have to with those others having this issue. Scanning 6 repeaters in OFT when holding on one group I want to hear i'm missing large amounts of conversations. I sat the scanner beside a MD380 and set them to both monitor the same "channel". I've heard entire conversations on the MD380 that the scanner missed. Also factor in that on several of the frequencies the radios are sending registration data regularly and it slows down the scan more. And all that aside this still doesn't account for the example I gave before (an will give again below) for to "channels" to be seen as one by the scanner in DMR One Freq. mode.

Frequency 1 / CC1 / Slot 1 / Group 1 "Channel 1"
Frequency 1 / CC1 / Slot 2 / Group 1 "Channel 2"
Frequency 2 / CC1 / Slot 1 / Group 1 "Channel 3"
Frequency 2 / CC1 / Slot 2 / Group 1 "Channel 4"

Channels 1/3 and 2/4 would appear to be the same to the scanner in DMR One Frequency since it scans all frequencies in the site looking for Slot and Group. So If I only want to listen to "channel 1" and I hold on that I would still hear "channel 3" since the Slot and Group I am monitoring match BOTH.
 

sibbley

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Upman, if you had a 4 frequency NON Trunked conventional DMR system, how would you set it up? 4 frequencies under 1 site? Each frequency in it's own site?
 

werinshades

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So they should not both be set up as being in the same system.

That's what I was looking at too. Assign a different FL/System to each one. That's what I've done and not having the issues described.

But I guess you could assign 1 FL and 2 different systems too?
 

UPMan

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If they are completely independent (i.e. not shared TGIDs), then they should be set up as completely different systems.
 

sibbley

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That's what I was looking at too. Assign a different FL/System to each one. That's what I've done and not having the issues described.

But I guess you could assign 1 FL and 2 different systems too?

So you have 1 FL with only 1 System in that FL?

Right now I have this:

Community College (FL)

System 1 (all 4 frequencies and color codes)
Department

Early on I did try this:

Community College (FL)

System 1 (1st frequency and color code)
System 2 (2nd frequency and color code)
System 3 (3rd frequency and color code)
System 4 (4th frequency and color code)
Department (1 department for all systems)

This setup seemed to be overkill. But it seems I should kept going in this direction?
 

werinshades

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So you have 1 FL with only 1 System in that FL?

Right now I have this:

Community College (FL)

System 1 (all 4 frequencies and color codes)
Department

Early on I did try this:

Community College (FL)

System 1 (1st frequency and color code)
System 2 (2nd frequency and color code)
System 3 (3rd frequency and color code)
System 4 (4th frequency and color code)
Department (1 department for all systems)

This setup seemed to be overkill. But it seems I should kept going in this direction?

What Talk Groups are coming up? What I've done is set up One Frequency DMR (FL*), System 0, then I add all the frequencies in the System, then when I go to the Channel, I have it labeled: talk group, TDMA slot (any), Volume Offset set, Alert light set.
 

UPMan

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If the two systems do not have any TGID in common, that will work. But if any of the TGIDs are used on both systems (for different things since they are different systems), it won't work. The example above was 2 different freqs all using TGID 1 for different things.
 

werinshades

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If the two systems do not have any TGID in common, that will work. But if any of the TGIDs are used on both systems (for different things since they are different systems), it won't work. The example above was 2 different freqs all using TGID 1 for different things.

That isn't an issue I've encountered yet, but yes I can understand that now. In that scenario, I'd do as you recommended.
 

jonwienke

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I hate to rain on the thread here, but after review my suspicion is the scanner is performing properly. In ID Search Mode, it's searching for a sampling of talk groups from all 4 frequencies where in Conventional Scan mode, the scanner is only looking for activity on the frequencies and once it doesn't hear anything, it moves on.

That's not how ID Search works, and has nothing to do with the slow scan speed problem.

When the scanner is checking a frequency, the first thing it does is attempts to detect a carrier. If it detects a carrier, it will spend a certain amount of time attempting to demodulate/decode the carrier to see if there is any intelligible traffic on the carrier. If there is digital traffic on the carrier, the scanner will look for a talkgroup ID. When it finds one, it compares the talkgroup ID to IDs in the database. If it finds a match, it will check to see if the Service Type of the matching talkgroup is enabled. If so, the scanner will play the traffic.

If no match for the talkgroup ID is found, and the scanner is in ID Scan mode, it will continue scanning on the assumption that you only want to listen to known talkgroups that match selected Service Types. But if it is in ID Search mode, it will display the talkgroup ID and play the traffic regardless of any other consideration, on the grounds that you want to hear new talkgroups so they can be categorized and added to the database.

The hang problem is happening before the scanner gets to the ID Search/Scan part of the process, either when it is attempting to detect a carrier, or trying to demodulate/decode the carrier to extract the DMR digital data. My guess is that the scanner is erroneously assuming that DMR One Frequency site freqs are always active (like trunked system control channels) and is wasting time trying to decode DMR data from a non-existent carrier.

I did notice you don't have an FL assigned either, where I do.

Wrong, the two test systems were created in a favorite list. They do not exist in the main database.

If UPMan can add anything here, it would probably help. From the video and description given, I can't see a firmware or scanner issue.

It's a definite problem. There shouldn't be any noticeable difference in the speed at which the two test systems are scanned.
 

RRR

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No matter how it is set up, we should be able to see the talkgroup (or the TGID) on the display so we know who is talking.
 

sibbley

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Ok, here is what I did this afternoon and it is working quite well. I moved all of my entities to their very own FL. Inside the FL there is 1 site for each frequency used by the entity and one department for all talk groups. Scanning is much faster, transmissions are more abundant too. Even my biggie Amazon, with 16 frequencies, each in it's own site is scanning quickly.

This just simply amazes me.

Thanks everyone...
 
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Phillipsc84

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Ok, here is what I did this afternoon and it is working quite well. I moved all of my entities to their very own FL. Inside the FL there is 1 system for each frequency used by the entity and one department for all talk groups. Scanning is much faster, transmissions are more abundant too. Even my biggie Amazon, with 16 frequencies, each in it's own system is scanning quickly.

This just simply amazes me.

Thanks everyone...



Can you elaborate on "one departmentfor all talkgroups"? That's one department per system with all talk groups or just the talk groups found on that frequency?


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jonwienke

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No matter how it is set up, we should be able to see the talkgroup (or the TGID) on the display so we know who is talking.

For non-trunked DMR, true. But that is not possible during discovery on systems where the talkgroup ID is broadcast on a completely different frequency.
 

sibbley

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Example would be a 4 frequency system. One site for each frequency, 4 sites. There are 12 talk groups for all 4 frequencies combined. So I created one department for all 12 talk groups.

So 4 sites, 1 department.

On this particular system, a college, I've heard from all 12 talk groups since I made these changes. That has never happened for me with a One Frequency system. So I'd consider this a success.

I have a total of 39 FL's scanning, more than I have ever had scanning at one time. I am also using ID Search.
 
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Phillipsc84

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Example would be a 4 frequency system. One system for each frequency, 4 systems. There are 12 talk groups for all 4 frequencies combined. So I created one department for all 12 talk groups.

So 4 systems, 1 department.

On this particular system, a college, I've heard from all 12 talk groups since I made these changes. That has never happened for me with a One Frequency system. So I'd consider this a success.

I have a total of 39 FL's scanning, more than I have ever had scanning at one time. I am also using ID Search.



A screen shot of the setup might help. Can you PM me so we don't tie up the thread? Unless this would be useful to others to share it here?

I'm imagining you have all 12 talk groups in each of the 4 systems? Since systems don't share talk groups.


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