I read some where a few weeks back. I think Con+ Control Channel doesn't move. Cap+ use rest channel and it does move. Not sure on Cap Max never seen any system around in my area. I know Con+ stays constant. Tier lll not sure if the control channel moves around........
DMR Signal - No Voice Heard on DSD+
- Thread starter rkillins
- Start date
- Status
Cap Max T3 systems use a constant control channel, doesn't move on its own
EDIT:
Going back and looking at the image, i'd just about say that the frequency sitting to the far left of the FMP graph will be the control channel
EDIT:
Going back and looking at the image, i'd just about say that the frequency sitting to the far left of the FMP graph will be the control channel
I found that 169.5900 is an active frequency. Oddly, one TAFL search website finds it in the search, but another doesn't. I am giving RRDB the benefit of the doubt that it belongs to WNH, so I'm sitting on that frequency with DSD+. Not sure if DSD+ is configured properly. The event windows claims this to belong to Network 1, has a site id of 1-2, is DMR(MOT) or as I have learned Tier3 Color Code 1. Seeing the scope pop up with transmissions, but no sound. (speakers plugged, volume at 0db in DSD+, Windows volume up, speaker volume up). DSD is set as combined. control and voice monitoring. Event log window is in 1R mode(?).
I have a network set up:
TIII, 1, "WNH"
I have sites set up:
TIII, 1, 1.1, "Waterloo 1"
TIII, 1, 1.2, "Waterloo 2"
I have frequencies set up:
TIII, 1, 1.1, 000, 169.4850, 0, 0
TIII, 1, 1.2, 000, 169.5900, 0, 0
Current network: 1
Current site: 1-35 169.0800 FM Wilmot Rds
FM Analog 1-35 169.0800 FM Wilmot Rds
Not sure what to make of this.
I have a network set up:
TIII, 1, "WNH"
I have sites set up:
TIII, 1, 1.1, "Waterloo 1"
TIII, 1, 1.2, "Waterloo 2"
I have frequencies set up:
TIII, 1, 1.1, 000, 169.4850, 0, 0
TIII, 1, 1.2, 000, 169.5900, 0, 0
I'm investigating this, I haven't found that blip (I'm assuming it will be a constant spike I'm looking for). In doing so, I found something else interesting. I found a spike at 169.0800. I typed it into FMP and the event window popped up with ...
Current network: 1
Current site: 1-35 169.0800 FM Wilmot Rds
FM Analog 1-35 169.0800 FM Wilmot Rds
Not sure what to make of this.
That is correct
This is where you are running into your issue. Because you don't have any channels programmed (where you have inserted 000 need to be a channel number for a T3 system). You can get the channel numbers from the DSD CC Window, which should show what channel is in use. You then need to map that channel to an active voice frequency.
Below, (different system from yours), I have posted a few different frequencies that belong with sites.
TIII, 4, 1.2, 8, 162.9875, 0.0, 0
TIII, 4, 1.2, 35, 163.3250, 0.0, 0
TIII, 4, 1.2, 61, 163.6500, 0.0, 0
TIII, 4, 1.2, 85, 163.9500, 0.0, 0
TIII, 4, 1.3, 13, 163.0500, 0.0, 0
TIII, 4, 1.3, 39, 163.3750, 0.0, 0
TIII, 4, 1.3, 65, 163.7000, 0.0, 0
TIII, 4, 1.3, 90, 164.0125, 0.0, 0
As above, transmissions are being carried but DSDPlus doesn't know where to find the conversations, so it doesn't know where to look.
Thanks Kazzaw for the education! The image I posted in post #5 is what I got. Where would I find the channel number? Or would I need to rely on that elusive control channel?
In post #17, BM82557 was kind to post a link to an LCN to Frequency Calculator for DMR TIII systems. I know two frequencies now, but I don't know if the LCN's it provides are the OTA channels I need to add to my lines. From that utility, 169.485 was calculated as LCN 45.
In post #17, BM82557 was kind to post a link to an LCN to Frequency Calculator for DMR TIII systems. I know two frequencies now, but I don't know if the LCN's it provides are the OTA channels I need to add to my lines. From that utility, 169.485 was calculated as LCN 45.
That small window right in the middle with CH, TX Freq, Pri, Tgt, etc will show you channel information. If you are on the control channel, it will show a number in the channel section. If you are on a voice channel, it will display S1/S2 in the channel section.
If you know 2 frequencies, use the calculator to input the channels. Note that DSDPlus only uses LSN (logical slot number), not LCN's (Logical channel number). You need to format the DSDPlus .frequencies file with the LSN, not the LCN. You don't need to do two entries for each frequency. Like in my example above, the last line TIII, 4, 1.3, 90, 146.0125, 0.0, 0 will be both LSN 89 and 90, but only one need to be entered.
If you know 2 frequencies, use the calculator to input the channels. Note that DSDPlus only uses LSN (logical slot number), not LCN's (Logical channel number). You need to format the DSDPlus .frequencies file with the LSN, not the LCN. You don't need to do two entries for each frequency. Like in my example above, the last line TIII, 4, 1.3, 90, 146.0125, 0.0, 0 will be both LSN 89 and 90, but only one need to be entered.
Alright ... I'll update my frequencies once I figure out how to use that application. I know the reference frequency, but I don't have the reference LSN that it needs, so not sure this has any value yet. I don't suppose this will help me find the control channel? Until I find that the cahnnel activity window (which you referred to) will not populate?
I'm confused though. I can appreciate not being able to monitor the frequencies as a "system", but shouldn't DSD still be able to decode the voice on a DMR transmission? (ie sitting on a frequency within that system that becomes active?)
I'm confused though. I can appreciate not being able to monitor the frequencies as a "system", but shouldn't DSD still be able to decode the voice on a DMR transmission? (ie sitting on a frequency within that system that becomes active?)
Last edited:
You are allowed to use placeholders for unknowns. It may help keep things straight.
From DSDPlus Notes.txt
"In DSDPlus.frequencies, "?" allowed for unknown OTA channel numbers,
TX frequencies and RX frequencies.
Examples:
Con+, 123, 1, ?, 454.6125, 0.0, 0
Con+, 123, 1, 7, ???.????, 0.0, 0
In the event log, DSD+ will report these as records with incomplete fields rather than as errors."
From DSDPlus Notes.txt
"In DSDPlus.frequencies, "?" allowed for unknown OTA channel numbers,
TX frequencies and RX frequencies.
Examples:
Con+, 123, 1, ?, 454.6125, 0.0, 0
Con+, 123, 1, 7, ???.????, 0.0, 0
In the event log, DSD+ will report these as records with incomplete fields rather than as errors."
If you pick up T3 voice, DSDPlus should decode as TIII BS down the bottom (at least in my experience)
I've went direct to the governemnet source of radio frequency licensee information. (Dec 2, 2020). WNH (from my search) has no LMR-Digital licenses (except for telemetry etc), just LMR-Analog (172.5600, 170.8950, 169.5900, 169.4850). None of these are carrying a control channel. :-(
slicerwizard
Member
You don't need any extra application. When a trunking site carries a voice call, DSD+ will display the voice channel number (or slot number for DMR trunks). You should be capable of finding the RF channel that's carrying that voice traffic, I mean, you do have more than one radio receiving device, yes? So now you have an LCN and an RF frequency - now you can complete an entry in the DSDPlus.frequencies file.
Typically, yes. Passive Monitor mode should have no problem doing that, unless it's P25 Phase II traffic. But if DSD+ is in full trunking mode (combined CC/VC monitor) and you're sitting on a control channel, I'd expect it to be stuck in CC monitoring mode until enough information was available to tune to a voice channel.
However, in your screen shot, you're not tuned to a control channel, nor has there been any voice traffic on whatever channel that is that you were tuned to.
I'm glad others are helping out with lots of good advice
I'm not familiar with the Canadian equivalent of the USA's FCC, But if I recall correctly an entity can get a license that is private, and won't be shown in any public searches. So the fact that your not finding anything in your search doesn't mean there's nothing else to find utilizing your other tools.. Keep looking.. With persistence comes results.
I do appreciate everyone's angle on this ...
Here is a screenshot of DSD+ during a transmission on one of the two known frequencies of this system. There is no info being presented in the Channel activity window so not sure where to find the LCN for this frequency. I get the same behaviour when a transmission happens on the other know frequency (169.5900). I have my Pro96 searching the band between 165 and 174 but not finding a constant carrier.
Will keep trying
Here is a screenshot of DSD+ during a transmission on one of the two known frequencies of this system. There is no info being presented in the Channel activity window so not sure where to find the LCN for this frequency. I get the same behaviour when a transmission happens on the other know frequency (169.5900). I have my Pro96 searching the band between 165 and 174 but not finding a constant carrier.
Will keep trying
I'm pretty sure it's been mentioned previously, Using Sentinel for your SDS Scanner, I'd put those two known frequencies into a single DMR One Frequency System with a Department for TGID's with one dummy TG (I use TG1),
And create a Site and add those frequencies to the site. Make sure the ID Search option is set to On.
Then you can record any activity, (Setting Squelch at 0 or 1 is an option that may improve decode), Hold on this system, Set it and forget it for a few days with recording enabled) This will allow voice traffic (if there is any) to be decoded and recorded by the scanner. Using this method does not require knowing LCN/LSN CH numbers or any other trunking info; If there is any to find..
What DSD+ appears to be receiving/decoding is an ID beacon that is sent out periodically by a base/repeater station, Sorta like a CW ID sent out on conventional repeater stations, except this one's digital. There may me some sort of data being relayed at times as well, DSD+ wouldn't decode this data. Voice traffic may only happen rarely, If at all. But if there is any unencrypted voice going on, You'd eventually catch it, If it lasts long enough for the scanner to decode it.
It's something I'd try anyway..
Good Luck.
And create a Site and add those frequencies to the site. Make sure the ID Search option is set to On.
Then you can record any activity, (Setting Squelch at 0 or 1 is an option that may improve decode), Hold on this system, Set it and forget it for a few days with recording enabled) This will allow voice traffic (if there is any) to be decoded and recorded by the scanner. Using this method does not require knowing LCN/LSN CH numbers or any other trunking info; If there is any to find..
What DSD+ appears to be receiving/decoding is an ID beacon that is sent out periodically by a base/repeater station, Sorta like a CW ID sent out on conventional repeater stations, except this one's digital. There may me some sort of data being relayed at times as well, DSD+ wouldn't decode this data. Voice traffic may only happen rarely, If at all. But if there is any unencrypted voice going on, You'd eventually catch it, If it lasts long enough for the scanner to decode it.
It's something I'd try anyway..
Good Luck.
slicerwizard
Member
When a trunking site carries a voice call and DSD+ is monitoring that site's control channel, DSD+ will display the voice channel number (or slot number for DMR trunks).
Use two receivers.
Thank you Slicerwizard. I'm trying to find that site's control channel so that DSD+ can display that data. Once I find that, then I can use the second receiver. A search between 146 and 174 has not turned up any constant carrier to suggest it's control channel resides in that range. (assuming it will be a constant carrier, and it's in that range). None of the frequencies provided in the government database for that licensee are control channels (and they are land mobile analog, not digital which I thought a DMR system would be listed as).
This all leaves me to question ... is this a trunked system?
As per u2brent's suggestion in post 35, I have created a favourites list in my SDS100 using sentinal
Wloo North Hydro
System Name : WNH1
System type : DMR One Frequency
Site : 0001
Frequency : 169.4850
Color Code : Color Code Search
Site : 0002
Frequency : 169.5900
Color Code : Color Code Search
Department : Hydro
Channel Name : Dummy
TGID : 0
TDMA Slot : Any
Service Type: Utilities
The SDS has not stopped on any of these. But that may be because its a weekend. It is normally a moderately busy utility.
This all leaves me to question ... is this a trunked system?
As per u2brent's suggestion in post 35, I have created a favourites list in my SDS100 using sentinal
Wloo North Hydro
System Name : WNH1
System type : DMR One Frequency
Site : 0001
Frequency : 169.4850
Color Code : Color Code Search
Site : 0002
Frequency : 169.5900
Color Code : Color Code Search
Department : Hydro
Channel Name : Dummy
TGID : 0
TDMA Slot : Any
Service Type: Utilities
The SDS has not stopped on any of these. But that may be because its a weekend. It is normally a moderately busy utility.
slicerwizard
Member
Aaaand here's where the moon shot veered off track and plowed into the sun.
What in his screen shots says it's Tier 3?
Hi Slicer ...
It was explained to me in posts 10 to 15. DMR(MOT) = Tier3.(?)
I also have problemns listening on my SDS100 for which I posted here with a video of the odd behaviour.
It was explained to me in posts 10 to 15. DMR(MOT) = Tier3.(?)
I also have problemns listening on my SDS100 for which I posted here with a video of the odd behaviour.
- Status
Similar threads
