DMR Tier 3 Programming BCD325P2

[havmedic26]

I just received my new Uniden BCD325P2 with the DMR upgrade. I have no experience with DMR before today, so obviously I am having trouble programming this system.

How do I figure out what LCN each channel is?

I programmed each channel into a conventional system. The first channel is the CC. It comes up DT3 on the bottom right of the display. No color code is displayed, though I did select search. the main display reads "NET0001: S0001". I can hear voice on each channel as they are used on the conventional system. If it is relevant, this system was migrated from an LTR trunked system. The radios on the system are Motorola XPR7550e.

I tried LCN 1/2/3/4/5 as they were prior to the DMR upgrade. I also tried 1/3/5/7/9. I read a couple conflicting articles about calculating the LCN, so I have tried all of the following:
CC: 1, 154, 155, 77, 78
F2: 2, 3, 28, 181, 182, 94
F3: 3, 5, 71, 224, 224, 225, 112, 113
F4: 4, 7, 779, 932, 933, 466, 467
F5: 5, 9, 401, 954, 955, 477, 478

These guesses were based on Base Freq + ((LCN+1)*0.0125) = Freq. I used both 450.0000 as the base frequency, then the CC as the base frequency, then each divided by 2. I have had no luck at all.

 

[jonwienke]

Does RR have the system listed? If so, the LCNs may be in the RR site data.

The x36 and SDS models have a LCN finder function that can figure out the LCNs, but it's heavily dependent on system traffic and can take hours to run. That aside, if you can borrow one of those models and get even some of the LCNs, figuring out the rest should be easier.

 

[havmedic26]

RR does not have the LCNs listed. It is still listed as an LTR system (which is partially why I embarked on this project). Apparently I made the wrong choice in my scanner :-(

 

[jonwienke]

The base frequency is not necessarily a fixed number, IIRC it can be changed from the default by the system admin. Your system may be using something non-standard instead of 450MHz or whatever.

Are you absolutely sure you have the all the system frequencies, correctly grouped by site? If you're missing frequencies, have extra frequencies, or don't have them grouped by site correctly, that borks the calculations.

Any chance you can borrow a scanner with LCN Finder?

 

[havmedic26]

I think I am going to inquire if I can exchange the scanner for a different one.

I am pretty sure that I have all the frequencies, although its possible that some are no longer in use. How would that change things? Is it possible that this type system would be numbered in order (1,2,3,4,5 or 1,3,5,7,9)? Or is it necessary that the LCN is the number of steps above the base frequency? In the later case I dont see how having all the freq would matter, but again this is my first time playing with DMR. It's one of the only system types I have never used.

 

[W4KRR]

If you can run DSD Plus on the system, it will tell you the LCN's. You then just have to match the correct frequency with the correct LCN.

As a side note, I also have a local DMR Tier 3 system, and my BCD325P2 is the only one of my DMR capable scanners that I can't get to work on the system. My SDS100 and BCD436HP work on Tier 3 just fine. I don't know if it's a programming error on my part, or an issue with the BCD325P2 and its handling of Tier 3. Uniden has not addressed my concern with this issue.

 

[PhillyPhoto]

DSD+ would be the best way. One note, even though it doesn't appear to be an issue for you, I tried with a Hytera system and could not get my 325 to use the DMR trunked option. I could do conventional and on-frequency trunk though. I could track a different Tier 3 system fine.

What system are you trying to monitor?

 

[havmedic26]

I'm really not happy with this scanner, so I hope I can exchange it? How would I run dsd+? A second scanner with discr tap?

 

[jonwienke]

Easiest way is a $20 rtl-sdr dongle and SDR#.

 

[buddrousa]

The 325P2 will work better on the system you are trying to monitor but if you do not want to spend the time to learn the system and the scanner then you need to buy a Whistler WS1088 as it does not track the DMR data it only scans the voice channels for traffic and does not require anything other than loading all voice channels.

 

[havmedic26]

Got it. Thanks. I figure I should be running that on the laptop in the truck anyways, but I lost the "key" to get the cover off an old BCD15 that i was going to tap.

In regard to the scanner and the system I am looking at:
What does the NETXXXX indicate? I had previously only seen it come up NET0001: S0001, but this morning it came up with multiple variants! NET0132, NET0131, NET0009.... (all S0001).

Does the fact that no color code comes up when I programmed it to search mean anything?

Why cant I program the same freq twice? (For slot 1 and 2, presumably with 2 different LCNs.



Strictly academically:
Since the LCN can not be a negative number, the base frequency must be less then or equal to the lowest channel in the system, correct?

For UHF in the US, the base frequency must be equal to or greater than 450.0000, correct?

In the US, the step must be 0.0125, correct?

Does the LCN need to be an odd number? Or an even number? Or it could be either?

Is the LCN twice the number of steps, to allow for the 2 time slots? (IE: 450.0250 is LCN 4 then 450.0500 must be LCN 8?)

In the previous example, wouldn't 450.0250 be LCN 3 or 6 if the base frequency is 450.000? (450.0000 LCN 1, 450.0125 LCN 2, 450.2500 LCN 3) vs (450.0000 LCN 1 and 2, 450.0125 LCN 3 and 4, 450.2500 LCN 5 and 6)

 

[cg]

The last update to the 996P2 and 325P2 scanners didn't get some Tier III working properly before UPMan got sick and Uniden's active link to the scanner community was halted.

You don't use a tapped scanner, you use a Software Defined Radio (SDR) and a group of programs called DSDPlus (Fast lane version) each is $25. You then run one of the included programs, FMP24 to control the SDR and a second, DSDPlus, to to monitor the system.

You don't mention which system you are trying to monitor but there isn't many in MA. Each Network would normally show a different NET number but some operators use the default.
If you see LCN of 1, 2, 3, etc, that is a system where the channel information is not transmitted.
If you see 125, 234, etc, that is a system you can calculate the other frequencies from one known channel/frequency combo.
Many of the MA systems have already been figured out. Have you looked at Scan New England?

chris

 

[PhillyPhoto]

Here's my post with everything I tried for a local system, and could never get working on my 325: BCD325P2: - DMR/MotoTRBO mode not working

This is all you need to get started from a hardware standpoint with SDR: Amazon.com: Nooelec NESDR Smart v4 Bundle - Premium RTL-SDR w/Aluminum Enclosure, 0.5PPM TCXO, SMA Input & 3 Antennas. RTL2832U & R820T2-Based Software Defined Radio.: Computers & Accessories

Then another $25 for DSD+ FastLane, which is worth every penny. So for about $60, you'll have something that can properly track DMR Tier 3 better than any Scanner on the market.

I gave up trying to track the T3 system, but still have the DMR upgrade in my SDS100 for conventional stuff.

 

[havmedic26]

That is Chris! I get it with DSD+ now. I was generally familiar with it, but will.probably go that route irrelevant of this issue.

I probably haven't updated my profile in sometime. I actually live in NH now. The system is Concord Hospital. Both RR and scan-ne list it as an LTR system, which it was as one time, so no useful info there. Scan-ne is correct about the inaccurate frequencies. The next system I will be looking at is Gunstock. This is my first experience with DMR I am sorry to say. I'm pretty well versed on all aspects of P25 and D-STAR on the digital side, as well as analog and trunking systems (analog, P25, hybrid, LTR, etc), but literally 2 days with DMR.

 

[havmedic26]

Thank Philly,

I'm going to look at the post you referenced, and thanks for the link! I will be going the route everyone suggested, and I appreciate the simple link you provided to amazon. While that has a place in my work, using a computer or anything more than a portable radio is often not an option.

Can you tell me how you like the SDS100? I am anticipating trying to exchange the 325 for the SDS.

 

[PhillyPhoto]

I love information, so I love the detail the SDS100 gives me for things like P25 systems (System IDs, WACNs, etc). The logging in DSD+ is really top notch, especially if you have a chance to look at the P25 site data files it creates.

I'd say the SDS picks up systems better too. I used to have a 436 years ago, and basically had to be within a city to hear it. Now I can be a few towns over and it picks it up.

I hear what you're saying about SDRs not being as portable, and that is the biggest downside by far. I've thought about a tablet setup, but just don't have the time to mess with that right now.

 

[havmedic26]

So..... I am working with the DSDPlus / FMP. How should I set this up to start?

Right now I am setting FMP to the CC freq, output to DSDPlus via TCP. I am getting lots of BS DATA, but so far no LCNs. There is definitely conversations happening when I am monitoring, but no luck. Should I be putting all of the frequencies into one of the config type files? How would I even do this without having an LCN?

 

[msingewald]

I would suggest going to the Voice/Control Channel Decoding forum here to ask these questions. That is where most of the DSDPlus discussions are.

Also, did you get into the FastLane program?