DMR Trunking, HELP. BCD436HP

[zeppelin11]

Hello, I have the Uniden BCD436HP scanner and need help programming DMR Trunked frequencies. The entity is Central Florida Electric Inc. I have found a data stream frequency that puts out that continuous loud annoying motor boat sound. I used www.digitalfrequencysearch.com and used the quick import tool and followed the directions for programming DMR Trunked frequencies into sentinel. I took all of the frequencies that the quick import tool pulled up and programed It into my radio under system type "MotoTRBO Trunk" and have had 0 hits in 1 week of scanning. I also verified that these frequencies license is active on the FCC website which they are making me assume that Central Florida Electric is either encrypted or im not programming correctly. So i have found 3 or 4 data motorboat sound frequencies and i programmed just those 3 or 4 frequencies under the system type "MotoTRBO Trunk". But when i go to scan the full database/favorites lists the scanner will stop on the data frequency i put in when there is no active transmission and not continue scanning leading me to believe something is wrong. I also programmed these frequencies as DMR Single frequency as well as conventional. Their FCC license states that the license is active and Trunked. Also Central Florida Electric spans across 3 counties Dixie, Levy and Gilchrist. I took their frequencies from all 3 counties and programmed them under system type MotoTRBO Trunk. There are 30 frequencies between the 3 counties and i had 0 hits on 30 frequencies within 7 days. I verified the data frequencies by using the "search for" feature which gave me the slot number, color code, site etc. Also i verified that these frequencies are on the Central Florida Electric FCC license and indeed it is. There is also i believe 3 separate licenses for each of the 3 counties. FCC license: WQIB467,WQHJ453, WQHR337
So i ask what is it that i am doing wrong? Is their something im missing or not understanding? I will upload pictures/screenshots of the data frequency that the "search for" feature found and the information it gave. All advice is dearly appreciated!!

 

[batdude]

i will be the first to admit. I am >NOT< the expert on DMR trunking systems, so bear with me.


i am going to make the assumption that you have purchased and installed the DMR upgrade into your radio and are using Uniden Sentinel to program the radio?


looking at the radio reference database, I do not see this system entered, so you are at square zero.

programming a DMR trunking system in a scanner for correct operation is not very easy - or intuitive. you need to be able to (somehow) figure out the channel plan that the system is using - meaning which repeaters are in which order - and also the system type. Based on what you have said - the if the "motorboat" is indeed CONSTANT - things are a bit easier (but not much) as I think this would be a "Connect Plus" type system instead of the much more difficult to figure out Capacity Plus type system.

as a start, I would manually program in each of the 30 channels as CONVENTIONAL DMR (not as a trunking system) to make sure you can receive audio from the system - try that and report back and perhaps some others can chime in.


regards


doug

 

[zeppelin11]

i will be the first to admit. I am >NOT< the expert on DMR trunking systems, so bear with me.


i am going to make the assumption that you have purchased and installed the DMR upgrade into your radio and are using Uniden Sentinel to program the radio?


looking at the radio reference database, I do not see this system entered, so you are at square zero.

programming a DMR trunking system in a scanner for correct operation is not very easy - or intuitive. you need to be able to (somehow) figure out the channel plan that the system is using - meaning which repeaters are in which order - and also the system type. Based on what you have said - the if the "motorboat" is indeed CONSTANT - things are a bit easier (but not much) as I think this would be a "Connect Plus" type system instead of the much more difficult to figure out Capacity Plus type system.

as a start, I would manually program in each of the 30 channels as CONVENTIONAL DMR (not as a trunking system) to make sure you can receive audio from the system - try that and report back and perhaps some others can chime in.


regards


doug

I appreciate your reply Doug! DMR is certainly tough, im far from an expert myself. I do have the DMR upgrade installed and working. i came across a DMR system when traveling and it worked as it should. I am also using sentinel to program the radio. I do have an RTL SDR and use DSD+ which says that the constant motorboat chanel system type is DMR Tier 3 I'll have to go back and look at all the info again. The frequency is constant. (Which i believe would be called the rest chanel) not 100% sure on that correct me if I'm wrong. I have programed all the frequencies in as conventional as well. I programmed them as Trunk and Conventional at the same time and was monitoring them both for about 7 days with no hits. Now it is my understanding that Uniden has made it to where Encrypted frequencies are completely ignored when scanning. And I'm sure it's most likely for legal purposes but unfortunately it just makes things a little more difficult having not knowing whether the frequency is encrypted or not in use etc. If it did stop on Encrypted frequencies at least you would know to no longer bother with it anymore. Unfortunately I'm leaning towards it being encrypted theres no way i wouldn't get any hits out of 30 frequencies in 7 days. Well sooner or later someone will come across this post and shed some light on the subject. Again thank you for your help Doug.

- Bob

 

[jack3726]

QQ, if you have the DSD+, does it show little e and big E result sets??

 

[zeppelin11]

QQ, if you have the DSD+, does it show little e and big E result sets??

I fired up SDR and DSD+ and this is the result i got when tuning to the constant signal. I'll also post screenshots. Another thing at least i found strange is that it also showed NXDN96 with DMR which is a completely different system unless there is 2 different systems using the same frequency maybe?

+DMR CACH ERR slot2 BS DATA DCC=1 Idle
+DMR slot1 BS DATA ERR2 DCC=1 CSBK
+DMR slot2 BS DATA ERR1 DCC=1 Idle
+DMR slot1 BS DATA ERR1 DCC=1 CSBK
+DMR slot2 BS DATA ERR1 DCC=1 Idle
+DMR slot1 BS DATA ERR1 DCC=1 CSBK
+DMR CACH ERR slot2 BS DATA ERR1 DCC=1 Idle
+DMR slot1 BS DATA ERR1 DCC=1 CSBK
+DMR slot2 BS DATA DCC=1 Idle
+DMR slot1 BS DATA DCC=1 CSBK
+DMR slot2 BS DATA DCC=1 Idle
+DMR slot1 BS DATA DCC=1 CSBK
+DMR slot2 BS DATA ERR1 DCC=1 Idle
+DMR slot1 BS DATA ERR2 DCC=1 CSBK
+DMR slot2 BS DATA ERR2 DCC=1 Idle
+DMR slot1 BS DATA ERR1 DCC=1 CSBK
Sync:+DMR
+DMR CACH ERR slot1 BS DATA DCC=1 CSBK
+DMR CACH ERR slot2 BS DATA DCC=1 Idle
+DMR CACH ERR slot1 BS DATA ERR3 DCC=5 PI Header
+DMR slot2 BS DATA DCC=1 Idle
+DMR slot1 BS DATA DCC=1 CSBK
+DMR slot2 BS DATA DCC=1 Idle
+DMR slot1 BS DATA ERR1 DCC=1 CSBK
+DMR slot2 BS DATA ERR1 DCC=1 Idle
+DMR slot1 BS DATA ERR2 DCC=1 CSBK
Sync:+DMR
+DMR CACH ERR slot1 BS DATA ERR2 DCC=1 CSBK
+DMR slot2 BS DATA DCC=1 Idle
+DMR slot1 BS DATA ERR3 DCC=1 CSBK
+DMR slot2 BS DATA ERR1 DCC=1 Idle
+DMR slot1 BS DATA ERR1 DCC=1 CSBK
+DMR slot2 BS DATA DCC=1 Idle
+DMR slot1 BS DATA ERR2 DCC=1 CSBK
Sync:-NXDN96 TB DATA
Sync:+DMR
+DMR CACH ERR slot1 BS DATA ERR3 DCC=1 Idle
+DMR slot1 BS DATA ERR1 DCC=1 CSBK
+DMR slot2 BS DATA DCC=1 Idle
+DMR slot1 BS DATA DCC=1 CSBK
+DMR slot2 BS DATA ERR1 DCC=1 CSBK
Sync:+DMR
+DMR slot2 BS DATA ERR2 DCC=1 CSBK
+DMR slot1 BS DATA ERR1 DCC=1 CSBK
Sync:-NXDN96 TS DATA
Sync:+DMR
+DMR slot2 BS DATA DCC=1 Idle
+DMR CACH ERR slot1 BS DATA ERR3 DCC=5 PI Header
+DMR CACH ERR slot2 BS DATA ERR2 DCC=1 Idle
+DMR slot1 BS DATA ERR1 DCC=1 CSBK
+DMR slot2 BS DATA DCC=1 Idle
+DMR slot1 BS DATA DCC=1 CSBK
+DMR CACH ERR slot2 BS DATA DCC=1 Idle
+DMR slot1 BS DATA ERR3 DCC=1 CSBK
+DMR slot2 BS DATA DCC=1 Idle
+DMR slot1 BS DATA ERR2 DCC=1 CSBK
+DMR CACH ERR slot2 BS DATA ERR1 DCC=1 Idle
+DMR CACH ERR slot1 BS DATA ERR3 DCC=1 CSBK
Sync:+DMR
+DMR slot1 BS DATA DCC=1 CSBK
+DMR slot2 BS DATA ERR3 DCC=1 Unknown TypeD
+DMR slot1 BS DATA ERR2 DCC=1 CSBK
+DMR slot2 BS DATA ERR1 DCC=1 Idle
+DMR slot1 BS DATA DCC=1 CSBK
+DMR slot2 BS DATA DCC=1 Idle
+DMR slot1 BS DATA ERR1 DCC=1 CSBK
+DMR slot2 BS DATA DCC=1 Idle
+DMR slot1 BS DATA DCC=1 CSBK
+DMR slot2 BS DATA DCC=1 Idle
+DMR slot1 BS DATA ERR1 DCC=1 CSBK
+DMR slot2 BS DATA ERR1 DCC=1 Idle
+DMR slot1 BS DATA ERR2 DCC=1 CSBK
+DMR CACH ERR slot2 BS DATA ERR1 DCC=1 Idle
+DMR slot1 BS DATA ERR2 DCC=1 CSBK
+DMR slot2 BS DATA DCC=1 Idle
+DMR slot1 BS DATA ERR1 DCC=1 CSBK
+DMR slot2 BS DATA DCC=1 Idle
+DMR slot1 BS DATA ERR2 DCC=1 CSBK
+DMR slot2 BS DATA ERR1 DCC=1 Idle
+DMR slot1 BS DATA ERR3 DCC=1 CSBK
Sync: no sync
Sync:+DMR
+DMR CACH ERR slot1 BS DATA ERR3 DCC=1 CSBK
Sync: no sync
Sync:+DMR
+DMR slot1 BS DATA ERR2 DCC=1 CSBK
Sync:+DMR
+DMR slot1 BS DATA DCC=1 CSBK
Sync:+DMR
+DMR slot1 BS DATA ERR2 DCC=1 CSBK
Sync:+DMR
+DMR CACH ERR slot1 BS DATA ERR2 DCC=1 Idle
Sync:+DMR
+DMR slot1 BS DATA ERR2 DCC=0 Data Header
Sync:+DMR
+DMR slot1 BS DATA ERR1 DCC=1 CSBK
+DMR slot1 BS DATA ERR3 DCC=0 Unknown TypeC
Sync:+DMR
+DMR slot1 BS DATA ERR1 DCC=1 CSBK
Sync:+DMR
+DMR slot1 BS DATA ERR3 DCC=1 CSBK
+DMR slot2 BS DATA ERR2 DCC=1 Idle
Sync:+DMR
+DMR slot1 BS DATA ERR2 DCC=1 Idle
Sync:-NXDN96 TB CCDATA ERR33
Sync:+DMR
+DMR slot1 BS DATA ERR1 DCC=1 CSBK
Sync:+DMR
+DMR slot1 BS DATA DCC=1 CSBK
Sync:+DMR
+DMR slot1 BS DATA ERR3 DCC=1 Rate 1 Data
Sync:+DMR
+DMR slot1 BS DATA ERR1 DCC=1 CSBK
Sync:+DMR
+DMR CACH ERR slot1 BS DATA DCC=1 Idle
Sync:+DMR
+DMR slot2 BS DATA ERR1 DCC=1 Idle
+DMR slot1 BS DATA DCC=1 CSBK
+DMR slot2 BS DATA ERR1 DCC=1 Idle
+DMR slot1 BS DATA ERR1 DCC=1 CSBK
+DMR slot2 BS DATA DCC=1 Idle
+DMR slot1 BS DATA DCC=1 CSBK
+DMR CACH ERR slot2 BS DATA DCC=1 Idle
+DMR slot1 BS DATA ERR3 DCC=1 CSBK
+DMR slot2 BS DATA DCC=1 Idle
+DMR slot1 BS DATA ERR3 DCC=1 CSBK
+DMR CACH ERR slot2 BS DATA ERR1 DCC=1 CSBK
+DMR slot1 BS DATA ERR2 DCC=1 CSBK
+DMR slot2 BS DATA ERR2 DCC=1 Idle
+DMR slot1 BS DATA DCC=1 CSBK
+DMR slot2 BS DATA DCC=1 Idle
+DMR slot1 BS DATA DCC=1 CSBK
+DMR slot2 BS DATA ERR1 DCC=1 Idle

 

[Ubbe]

You don't have enough signal strenght to decode properly using the RTL-SDR. Try adjusting the gain setting. I have no RTL AGC or Tune AGC enabled and have set my gain to 37dB. Start from that value and increase to 40dB to see if it helps getting a better decode. I use SDR# and use Virtual Audio Cable to pipe the audio to DSD+ and in SDR# I have set the bandwidth to 12,5KHz to match the standard DMR transmissions. I also use DSDtune to get the correct parameters for the decoder.

Your scanner seems to pick up the system and TierIII DT3 systems have a fixed control channel at each site that always transmit data. In DSD+ you should see what adjacent sites the system has as that are being sent out on the control channel. But as you have all the frequencies from FCC you can easily listen and when you hear a constant datasignal it should be a control channel.

To be able to listen to conversations in your scanner you'll have to program the voice channels as well and set the correct LCN channel numbers to them. When DSD+ works for you it will tell you what channel number that are sent out when a conversation starts. Use TheWraights LCN calculator to convert from DSD+ LSN channel numbers to Uniden LCN channel numbers. LCN to Frequency calculator for DMR TIII

To be able to monitor calls using DSD+ you'll have to set the channel table properly with the correct frequencies. The calculator should be able to help you with that.

By using the calculator you can figure out the voice channels LCN and the control channels LCN for one site and enter those in the scanner. If the system have several voice channels for each site it might be more difficult to find those as they get active only when the first voice channel are fully populated with calls. It could take a while to get those LSNs from DSD+ but look in the log for any channel grants that you may have missed.

If you scan voice channels in a TierIII system you should be able to hear the conversations. If they only use the 1:st slot of the control channel for voice then you'll never hear anything until the LCN number are set correctly as the scanner locks on to the control channel slot and doesn't automaticly switch to the other slot to monitor voice calls, until the LCN are set.

/Ubbe

 

[zeppelin11]

You don't have enough signal strenght to decode properly using the RTL-SDR. Try adjusting the gain setting. I have no RTL AGC or Tune AGC enabled and have set my gain to 37dB. Start from that value and increase to 40dB to see if it helps getting a better decode. I use SDR# and use Virtual Audio Cable to pipe the audio to DSD+ and in SDR# I have set the bandwidth to 12,5KHz to match the standard DMR transmissions. I also use DSDtune to get the correct parameters for the decoder.

Your scanner seems to pick up the system and TierIII DT3 systems have a fixed control channel at each site that always transmit data. In DSD+ you should see what adjacent sites the system has as that are being sent out on the control channel. But as you have all the frequencies from FCC you can easily listen and when you hear a constant datasignal it should be a control channel.

To be able to listen to conversations in your scanner you'll have to program the voice channels as well and set the correct LCN channel numbers to them. When DSD+ works for you it will tell you what channel number that are sent out when a conversation starts. Use TheWraights LCN calculator to convert from DSD+ LSN channel numbers to Uniden LCN channel numbers. LCN to Frequency calculator for DMR TIII

To be able to monitor calls using DSD+ you'll have to set the channel table properly with the correct frequencies. The calculator should be able to help you with that.

By using the calculator you can figure out the voice channels LCN and the control channels LCN for one site and enter those in the scanner. If the system have several voice channels for each site it might be more difficult to find those as they get active only when the first voice channel are fully populated with calls. It could take a while to get those LSNs from DSD+ but look in the log for any channel grants that you may have missed.

If you scan voice channels in a TierIII system you should be able to hear the conversations. If they only use the 1:st slot of the control channel for voice then you'll never hear anything until the LCN number are set correctly as the scanner locks on to the control channel slot and doesn't automaticly switch to the other slot to monitor voice calls, until the LCN are set.

/Ubbe

Great information Ubbe i really appreciate it however i got the answer i was looking for. I was scanning the system and heard a quick garble then payed attention to the screen and when another transmission came over the air at the bottom right of the screen it said ENC for encrypted. Which is ridiculous if you ask me, why would an electric company feel the need to encrypt is beyond me. To everyone who helped me try and figure this out i really appreciate your time!

 

[Ubbe]

In my area almost all DMR are encrypted as it is so easy to do and at no cost. It is not hacker proof but scanners and the occasional listener with a DMR radio cannot monitor the systems. This is systems that have no critical or sensitive info to transmit like the amusement park, venues with artist performance and hockey games and soccer. There's the amateur DMR repeaters and maybe 3-4 other systems like for construction sites and an energy company that can be monitored and the rest of 20-25 systems are encrypted only for the reason that they can.

/Ubbe