Do Your Homework Before Selecting A Scanner

[dwh367]

Long story short I was trying to help someone with a problem they had with their scanner (on another platform). They had just received it brand new and couldn't get it to work correctly. After some research I narrowed the problem down to simulcast distortion.

I mentioned to them that the Uniden SDS series would have been a better choice for their particular area. At that point they went off the rails about how they had just spent over $400 on that scanner and that they had gotten ripped off and on and on.

I sent them a link on things to to try in order to get their current scanner to work with their simulcast system. I also sent them a link about SDRs. They wouldn't have any of it. I finally ended having to block them just to get them to shut up.

The moral of the story is if you're new to scanners do some research before you buy your new scanner. If there's something you don't understand then ask questions. Ultimately it's up to you to figure out which scanner will work best for your needs. It's not Uniden's or Whistler's problem if you got the wrong one. You ordered it and they sent it. Their job is done at that point.

 

[KB2GOM]

You're right.

In a sense, it's the age-old problem when you are new to a hobby: you don't know what you don't know, and often (at least for me) you don't know enough to ask the right questions.

A friend and I are preparing to do a short presentation at the local library on "Public Service Communications Monitoring," and one of the things I realized (file this under "Totally obvious") is that the sophistication of your local public service communications systems will drive the level of sophistication you need in a scanner. (If that is what you want to hear.) So check the Radio Reference database first. But a newbie may not even know of Radio Reference.

My first attempts at using a scanner were an outright disaster. Through ignorance, I did almost everything wrong. Fortunately, an experienced scanner enthusiast (and fellow ham), took me under his wing and suggested how to use scanners successfully.

Now, as I am running the Commuter Assistance Network on 2-meter ham this morning -- Commuter Assistance Net -- I have four scanners and a scanning transceiver running, all to good effect.

Perhaps someone ought to write up a scanner guide for outright newbies.

 

[fredva]

It's a shame that the person you were helping wasn't able to handle the mistake in a more mature manner.

I will say that the need to account for simulcast can be a little fuzzy. You sometimes have to dig deep into the database, to look at the FCC data for a particular site, to determine if simulcast is a factor in an area.

the sophistication of your local public service communications systems will drive the level of sophistication you need in a scanner.

Absolutely! It concerns me when people post that they are looking for an "entry level scanner." Scanners aren't quite like cars, where a cheap used car may still get you where you need to go, and just doesn't have all the features of a nicer car. You can buy a cheap scanner and not be able to hear anything you are interested in. Figuratively speaking, it may not get you out of the driveway. But at least people who make posts before purchasing can get some advice.

 

[KB2GOM]

Scanners aren't quite like cars, where a cheap used car may still get you where you need to go, and just doesn't have all the features of a nicer car. You can buy a cheap scanner and not be able to hear anything you are interested in. Figuratively speaking, it may not get you out of the driveway. But at least people who make posts before purchasing can get some advice.

Exactly! . . . and there are basic things -- like putting different kinds of services in different banks (if that's how your scanner works) that will vastly improve success.

I bought a returned Uniden 125 from Amazon, and I could see clearly why the previous owner was unhappy. He (or she) had dumped a whole bunch of unrelated frequencies into one bank (including a weather channel). No wonder they were frustrated! (PS -- that's exactly what I did with my first scanner).

 

[w2lie]

This is the type of person that I was looking to help when I started my podcast. Everyone starts somewhere.
For those of us in the hobby, we forget a lot of the simple things that most just getting into the hobby don't know or understand.

In order for us old salts to relate, we should take a look at that new hobby we might have recently taken up. That feeling of being overwhelmed at slowly understanding is an interesting journey. Now reapply that learning path to scanning in today's digital environment, you'll see this is not an easy hobby to jump into depending on where you live.

A big thank you to all the Elmers out there that help keep the hobby going.

 

[Omega-TI]

It's a shame that the person you were helping wasn't able to handle the mistake in a more mature manner

True, sometimes the truth hurts and some are not mature enough to admit their mistakes or lack of knowledge. There is an old saying "A little bit of knowledge can be dangerous". There are others who may be afraid to ask questions because of the arrogance of others who know everything (or think they do) and simply don't want to hear the same question for the upteenth time from yet another newbie. And then there are the types who are full of themselves and seem to take a perverse pleasure in deriding those who do ask questions, thankfully those types are far and few between.

The callous dismissive types are the one who bother me the most. On another system I frequent a guy came in and asked a truly legitimate question, but was promptly scolded for posting in the wrong section, then told, "Just go read FAQ page". We never saw that guy again. Now these forums can be huge and overwhelming to a person who has logged in for the first time, so a little understanding and tolerance can go a long way to not discouraging good people.

One of my favorite instances is a guy everyone thought was a newbie, he came in and asked a couple of "lame questions" about a piece of new hardware that connected to a 40 year old computer and was brushed off by "the big guns". I contacted him via private chat answered his questions and found out he was an engineer on the original hardware and was just getting back into the hobby after a 30 year absence. He hung around for a couple of years and added quite a bit of knowledge, original documentation and insights into interfacing that old equipment.

 

[R0am3r]

@dwh367 - No good deed goes unpunished. My wife reminds me of this saying every time I help a friend or family member with a computer or radio issue. As I have grown older I have learned to appreciate when someone offers to help me. I hope that I am as generous with my time as people like you.

 

[gmclam]

Perhaps someone ought to write up a scanner guide for outright newbies.

Then you'd need to get people to read it. It illustrates why YouTube videos are so popular.

The information is out there, but, especially a newbie, has no idea what questions to ask. Think about it, P25, trunking, simulcast, NXDN; it's an alphabet soup and difficult to determine what you need. Then you do figure it out and your local agency "upgrades" to something newer. Yikes.

I am as technical as it gets; h/w designer, f/w coder, software developer. I've been monitoring since circa 1967 and have watched all these transitions from one band and one technology to the next. Receivers/scanners have always been a little behind (if capable at all) in being able to monitor these systems. I thought I was 100% ready for when my county switched to P25 trunked, but then along came simulcast.

My point is it is difficult for those of us who know, I can clearly see why others are having troubles. To spend $150 for a scanner is do-able for people who want to be in this hobby. Oh, I need P25; that'll be double the price. Oh there's options I need too; add more $$$. Now you've spent hundreds of dollars and find out that new radio doesn't handle simulcast (or some other thing), yikes again. And just because it costs $600 or $1000 doesn't mean it can do the job either. Yeah do your homework and then do it again for sure.

 

[IAmSixNine]

Unfortunately your advice will fall on deaf ears. Your not taking into account the human factor. SOME people dont want to research. They want to spend as little money as possible then when it doesnt work complain and not take any responsibility for their own actions. Case in point the OP just dealt with this. When he tried to explain about simulcast distortion and SDS capabilities he got an ear full.
But thats the human factor. On the flip side if the person is willing to learn and does take the advice given then they can correct the mistake, return it and get the right tool for the right job. SDS are great tools when the job includes simulcast distortion.
Thanks to the OP for trying to help. Sorry the person he was trying to help ended up being one of those who do no wrong.

 

[Giddyuptd]

Another factor many don't consider is the ever changing technology.

People are use to a town or county using local funds to purchase systems and hardware being cheap but with state and federal grants its easier than ever to get the infrastructure and other deals with subscriber systems.

I've seen people invest in APX and unications with short while later it be a paper weight unless they want to hear street sweepers.

One must also consider that factor in the new age of LTE to come and use of secure methods which is a ymmv in areas. I can say for fact for whatever attention issue reason people have those groups which share endless details on gossip groups does have impact on choices what departments do in communications. Specially when too much details are spread before all the facts are in. It's a plague.

 

[Brales60]

I kinda of wish I had found this place before I bought my 996P2. It works pretty good with as far as I've got with it (so much to learn), but I would've just jumped into a SDS200. I also would have read more about antennas too. The guys here have been good with helping me with the little bit I've asked so far. I'm in Charlotte County, Fl.

 

[BenScan]

I was a pretty experienced scanner user(probably 30+ years) when simulcast became an issue, so I have a little more empathy. Uniden and Whistler were/are selling scanners to monitor local public safety channels and often didn't/don't mention simulcast challenges and solutions, and I think they were very slow to recognize and address it(if at all).

It certainly is good advice to research before you spend money on anything expensive, but simulcast is a b!7c#. Finding good reliable information is challenging with all of the noise on forums like this.

Now, if you asked experts and didn't take their advice, then that's on you. These days, I wouldn't recommend any scanner/receiver that did not handle simulcast, even if the intended area of use doesn't currently have simulcast systems. I would much rather spend a couple $200 extra on the scanner than hours of frustration and additional money for add-on solutions like yagi antennas, cables, etc.. If you travel, it makes even more since to spend the money up front.

Happy Scanning!

 

[Giddyuptd]

The strange thing with the simulcast issue is the 436 I have never had the issue. It was odd. Others though complained of systems with it having that but mine never had the issue side by side with a subscriber. It was odd to me.

 

[Randyk4661]

This is great advice. Read RadioReference, Talk to other users. Read articles online.
Just because the scanner will receive the frequencies doesn't mean they can hear them.
Unfortunately there will always be the person that knows more about everything and won't listen to advice given.

 

[sonm10]

The RadioReference Wiki

wiki.radioreference.com

 

[sallen07]

The strange thing with the simulcast issue is the 436 I have never had the issue. It was odd. Others though complained of systems with it having that but mine never had the issue side by side with a subscriber. It was odd to me.

Congratulations. You have won the simulcast lottery.

As with all lotteries, a few win. Most do not.

 

[eaf1956]

@dwh367 - No good deed goes unpunished. My wife reminds me of this saying every time I help a friend or family member with a computer or radio issue. As I have grown older I have learned to appreciate when someone offers to help me. I hope that I am as generous with my time as people like you.

Oh Come on I'M not that bad....LOL

 

[pb_lonny]

This is why I have a page on my bog, just for this reason: Scanning the Tasmanian Police

 

[KevinC]

I didn’t know their would be homework.

 

[mmckenna]

The moral of the story is if you're new to scanners do some research before you buy your new scanner. If there's something you don't understand then ask questions. Ultimately it's up to you to figure out which scanner will work best for your needs. It's not Uniden's or Whistler's problem if you got the wrong one. You ordered it and they sent it. Their job is done at that point.

You'd be surprised how often I run into similar cases.
Someone wants "Walkie Talkies" at work. instead of asking the radio guy, they buy some random crap off Amazon and then complain to me.

More than a few threads on here where people want a Part 90 license for their business and will run out and buy a bunch of radios off e-Bay, then want to license an 800MHz simplex itinerant frequency (there aren't any….). No amount of telling them to do their research or get a coordinated frequency and FCC license FIRST will get through to them.


I've come to the conclusion that some people are stupid and put an extensive amount of effort into remaining stupid despite all other efforts.
You can't change them.