Does Ham operate on police band?

[RRgumshoe]

Hello everyone,
I'm new to the forum and also new to ham radio and well radio in general so please pardon my radio "rookie" questions.

I'm a police officer. I'm looking into buying radio that I can program several different agencies into one radio. I wasn't sure if this would be possible with a Ham radio.

I've been looking around for an affordable UHF radio. Does UHF also over the 100mhz band or would that be VHF?

My department is working on providing us with the radios that we need, but it's taking much longer then expected and I'm out there by myself 99% of the time. Anotherofficer told me he purchased his own radio that operated on the 460 band and also 100 band? I hope I got that right.

Any help would be appericated.

 

[N_Jay]

There are several threads that dance all over this issue.

Technical answer
1) VHF is 30 to 300 MHz
2) UHF is 300 to 3000 MHz
Practical Answer
1) Business/Public Safety VHF is 150 to 174 MHz
2) Business/Public Safety UHF is 450 to 512 MHz
3) Hams have bands at 144-148 MHz and 440-450 MHz
4) There is NO currently available dual band business/public safety radio equipment
5) There IS ham 144-148 / 440-450 radio equipment
6) Some (most) ham radios can be modified to work outside the ham band (covering the Business/Public Safety band)
7) It is ILLEGAL to transmit on the business/public safety band with ham radio equipment. (Period)(No exception because "others" do it)(No exception because your boss/chief/Captain/Lieutenant/guy at the radio shop/etc. says it is OK)

 

[jim202]

N JAY did a good job of bringing the main point home. Unless the radio is "TYPE ACCEOTED" by the FCC, it can NOT be used on commercial or Public Safety channels. End of the discussion.

Many people take "Ham" radio equipment, modify it and use it on these channels. If by some chance you get a visit by an FCC field engineer, the violations can and will be on the order of $10,000 per violation.

Do what you want, these are the facts as they stand on the books.

By the way, I am a ham and have been since about 1962 or so. Been in the two-way radio field for about 38 years now. Have seen much take place over that time. Can a ham use a radio on a public safety frequency? That depends on the circumstances at the time. If it is a life and death issue, you may get away with it. But you had better be ready for the flood of words from the department to come your way for doing it.

Jim

Hello everyone,
I'm new to the forum and also new to ham radio and well radio in general so please pardon my radio "rookie" questions.

I'm a police officer that works for the railroad. I'm looking into buying radio that I can program several different agencies into one radio. I wasn't sure if this would be possible with a Ham radio.

I've been looking around for an affordable UHF radio. Does UHF also over the 100mhz band or would that be VHF?

My department is working on providing us with the radios that we need, but it's taking much longer then expected and I'm out there by myself 99% of the time. Another railroad officer told me he purchased his own radio that operated on the 460 band and also 100 band? I hope I got that right.

Any help would be appericated.

 

[bigbluemsp]

I spoke to a Motorola Rep this morning and he said the only company he knows of that offers a radio that will transmitt and receive on both VHF and UHF in the same portable radio is made by Kenwood. He wasn't sure of the model but he has heard of it and seen it.

 

[KB8UYC]

N_Jay,

You are absolutly correct with a very minor addition....UHF ham is actually 420-450(with some of that use for Amatuer TV and satellite work.....)

and the only reason that he would not be able to use a 2/440 radio is because it is only type accepted for Amateur Usage, not bussiness. Though it can be modified to "recieve" Police, Fire, EMS etc... that is about the limitations.

BTW....
Amateur Radio does not transmit on police or fire bands. Though in RARE situations and it is in a TRUE EMERGENCY/DECLARED EMERGENCY, FCC rules allow the amateur radio operator(regardless of the class of license) to transmit on ANY frequency for anyone in distress or emergency and nobody is answering them.But again, only used in EXTREME Situations.

There are several threads that dance all over this issue.

Technical answer
1) VHF is 30 to 300 MHz
2) UHF is 300 to 3000 MHz
Practical Answer
1) Business/Public Safety VHF is 150 to 174 MHz
2) Business/Public Safety UHF is 450 to 512 MHz
3) Hams have bands at 144-148 MHz and 440-450 MHz
4) There is NO currently available dual band business/public safety radio equipment
5) There IS ham 144-148 / 440-450 radio equipment
6) Some (most) ham radios can be modified to work outside the ham band (covering the Business/Public Safety band)
7) It is ILLEGAL to transmit on the business/public safety band with ham radio equipment. (Period)(No exception because "others" do it)(No exception because your boss/chief/Captain/Lieutenant/guy at the radio shop/etc. says it is OK)

 

[RRgumshoe]

Thanks a bunch for your answers, this helps me out a lot and points me int he right direction.

Well Ham radio's are out of the question. I'll start looking for used public safety radios, I have seen them on E-bay.

Once again thanks

 

[NeFire242]

Type Accepted.

Yet you want ham radio to be backup communications in huge disasters and be the team player that saves everyone in the end... hmmmm.

What if a ham uses Moto/Kenwood Commercial stuff... is it ok then?

 

[N_Jay]

. . .
Amateur Radio does not transmit on police or fire bands. Though in RARE situations and it is in a TRUE EMERGENCY/DECLARED EMERGENCY, FCC rules allow the amateur radio operator(regardless of the class of license) to transmit on ANY frequency for anyone in distress or emergency and nobody is answering them.But again, only used in EXTREME Situations.

This is not quite right.

The FCC allows ANYONE to use ANY MEANS NECESSARY in the case of an immediate threat to life and safety.

HAMS have no extra rights or permissions above ANY OTHER PERSON!

 

[N_Jay]

Type Accepted.

Yet you want ham radio to be backup communications in huge disasters and be the team player that saves everyone in the end... hmmmm.

What if a ham uses Moto/Kenwood Commercial stuff... is it ok then?

Hams can use anything they want on their bands.
Hams can even use home built non-certified equipment on the ham bands.

Hams are responsible for the correct operation of the equipment, not the manufacturer.

Amateur type acceptance is needed for sale not for use.

 

[KB8UYC]

You are correct, I was just looking at it from an amateur radio aspect....since I am an Ham!! but you are correct....

This is not quite right.

The FCC allows ANYONE to use ANY MEANS NECESSARY in the case of an immediate threat to life and safety.

HAMS have no extra rights or permissions above ANY OTHER PERSON!

 

[diskmonger]

If by some chance you get a visit by an FCC field engineer, the violations can and will be on the order of $10,000 per violation.

I think you have a greater chance being struck by lightning than being visited by a "FCC Field Engineer".

 

[N_Jay]

You are correct, I was just looking at it from an amateur radio aspect....since I am an Ham!! but you are correct....

Its amazing what you can see when you look to hard!:lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[N_Jay]

I think you have a greater chance being struck by lightning than being visited by a "FCC Field Engineer".

Yes, we get this excuse in every thread on this topic also.

 

[NeFire242]

When was the last time the FCC really busted down anyones door? Look at K1MANN and all of that mess. Anyone here ever get an OO card then too in the mail?

 

[STiMULi]

When was the last time the FCC really busted down anyones door? Look at K1MANN and all of that mess. Anyone here ever get an OO card then too in the mail?

The Call sign is K1MAN

 

[RRgumshoe]

I guess some folks missed my point or question above.

It wasn't a question about legality. It was a question if it was techincally capable.

A police officer doesn't get in trouble for operating on other police frequencies....maybe someone missed the fact that I mentioned that. There would be no need to "DECLARE AN EMERENCY" to operate on my own department's frequencies or that of a county sheriff if I was making a simple traffic stop

I also highly doubt the FCC would give two cents into the fact that an officer is utilizing a ham radio in the interest of officer safety especially in his/her performances duties as said officer but hey I could be wrong....

But I solved my issue and got another deparment to supply us with radios until we get ours up and running and thanks for the technical help for those who did provide it.

 

[N_Jay]

A police officer doesn't get in trouble for operating on other police frequencies....maybe someone missed the fact that I mentioned that. There would be no need to "DECLARE AN EMERENCY" to operate on my own department's frequencies or that of a county sheriff if I was making a simple traffic stop

Unfortunately, this is where many people are incorrect. You do need to use the properly type of equipment, EVEN if the frequency is licensed, EVEN to do police work.

(Maybe it is common misconceptions like yours, that cause people to bring up the legal answer when the technical question is asked):wink:

I also highly doubt the FCC would give two cents into the fact that an officer is utilizing a ham radio in the interest of officer safety especially in his/her performances duties as said officer but hey I could be wrong....

You are wrong. There have been several public safety agencies that have been threatened with FCC action for illegal radio use in the past year.
The use of ham gear will become an even bigger issue after the 2013 narrowbanding mandate as ham gear will likely cause and be subject to considerable interference to the adjacent channels.

But I solved my issue and got another department to supply us with radios until we get ours up and running and thanks for the technical help for those who did provide it.

Congrats on getting your department to do the right thing. There are still a lot of police and fire chiefs who think they "can do no wrong!"

 

[bigbluemsp]

I would ask the city for the radio since they are more flexable and waste less time

 

[RRgumshoe]

Congrats on getting your department to do the right thing. There are still a lot of police and fire chiefs who think they "can do no wrong!"

This had nothing to do with my department doing the right/wrong thing. This was about research to see if it would be feasible for an officer to utilize a ham as a back up radio or for a temporary solution. I'm not sure where you are going with the Police/fire chiefs who can do no wrong thing, but it has nothing to do with this thread.

I would like to see the information you are getting where the FCC actually threated a public safety department and for what reasons. It would make for an interesting read. Well now I know that ham will definately be out of the question for future references

BigBlue, thanks for the help. We currently utilize HT1000 from Motorola LOL My partner and I was just impatient, but we'll wait it out. Check your PMs

 

[bigbluemsp]

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