Dover, Del. - Delaware to deploy P25 network from Tyco Electronics Wireless Systems

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ka3jjz

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<sigh> duplicate post - I already posted this in the Delaware forum 73 Mike
 
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DaveNF2G

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Can't read the linked article without registration.

What kind of system is it - EDACS, OpenSky, P25IP?

Delaware is relatively flat and very small. They might actually be able to do the job there.
 
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N_Jay

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Can't read the linked article without registration.

What kind of system is it - EDACS, OpenSky, P25IP?

Delaware is relatively flat and very small. They might actually be able to do the job there.

"Delaware to deploy P25 network from Tyco Electronics Wireless Systems"

It's in the title!:roll:
 
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DaveNF2G

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Even you should know, N_Jay, that Tyco manufactures more than one kind of "P25" trunked system. One type is used on military bases. EDACS can be P25 compliant with the CAI. P25IP provides back-end interoperability. And they pretend that OpenSky is compliant.
 
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N_Jay

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Even you should know, N_Jay, that Tyco manufactures more than one kind of "P25" trunked system. One type is used on military bases. EDACS can be P25 compliant with the CAI. P25IP provides back-end interoperability. And they pretend that OpenSky is compliant.

Even you should know, Dave, that you are WRONG!

Tyco manufactures ONLY one kind of "P25" trunked system. THAT type is used on military bases. (and anywhere else they sell P25 trunked systems)

EDACS can NOT be P25 compliant AND DOES NOT USE the CAI. (Tyco has never sold an EDACS system using the P25 CAI.)

P25IP IS THEIR BRAND FOR THEIR P25 Products and Systems and includes/interfaces with their back-end interoperability systems referred to and BRANDED AS as VIDA (and Network First).

And they NEVER pretend that OpenSky is compliant, but do support multi-mode subscriber products that are compliant. (and have used that justification to assist customers getting around "P25 requirements" in grants.)

Anything else you need cleared up?;);)
 
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DaveNF2G

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I'm not gonna argue. I do know for a fact that somebody told NYS OFT at some point that OpenSky would be P25 compliant. Probably an unsanctioned statement by an enthusiastic sales rep, but the statement has been made by their representatives.

My statement about EDACS is based on a report I received from someone who claims to be hearing P25 digital audio on an EDACS system.
 
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N_Jay

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I do know for a fact that somebody told NYS OFT at some point that OpenSky would be P25 compliant. Probably an unsanctioned statement by an enthusiastic sales rep, but the statement has been made by their representatives.
Yep, either that or the M/A-COM rep and/or the listener did not understand what they were saying or what they were hearing.

My statement about EDACS is based on a report I received from someone who claims to be hearing P25 digital audio on an EDACS system.
Guess they were wrong, lying, or did not know what they were talking about.
 

brey1234

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The problems are many

The advantage of Open Sky, as I see it--is that one channel can carry on 2 conversations...BUT in day to day communications that will not be needed in my opinion. Another issue: Anyone who does not have an Open Sky radio WILL NOT be able to communicate with the system. Pa has seen that as an issue and is deploying more repeater sites---in the 450 MHz range( basically an all NEW radio system, I.e.; More costs) and plans on using it's existing sites that use the national frequency of 155.475 MHz to "patch" existing radio systems in.

That may sound good on paper---but when you're involved in a high stress situation---you shouldn't be wasting time asking a dispatcher to "throw a patch" or telling local law enforcment to switch to the correct frequency. Right now in most Pa State Police cars, the "old" radio system has the capability of talking the local law enforcement by flicking a channel selector in the car and not having to depend on anyone else. That will done away with with Open Sky. Also, right now, Troopers can listen to local law enforcement to know whats going on around them.

One of the main potential problems is the so called "cell sites" that will be used. They are used to "fill in" dead spots that the tower sites can not reach. In Pa most of those cell sites are connected by phone lines! In bad weather if the phone lines are pulled down or receive such damage---the cell site is useless. IF the cell sites are linked via microwave or another RF form there is less likely the chance of a problem.

Getting back to Project 25. Lets say that local police departments decide to go to that digital format. They can bid on and then buy P25 radios from a variety of vendors, Motorola (Ma/Com DOES make a p25 radio) Relm, GE, just about anyone. That's another problem for taxpayers with Open Sky. Because it is a propriety format (patended) no one else can manufacture those radios---meaning a government agency would be forced to buy from Ma/Com--no one else. (no bidding!) That's like saying I have a radio and TV station. I will not be using the national standard to broadcast my programming. If you want to see/hear us you will have to buy the TV/radio set from us!
 
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N_Jay

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The advantage of Open Sky, as I see it--is that one channel can carry on 2 conversations...BUT in day to day communications that will not be needed in my opinion.
1a) I don't know how this became an OpenSky thread.
1b) That is an advantage of TDMA of all sorts. (They each have their own slot count) (TETRA (4), iDEN (6), OpenSky (2 or 4), MotoTurbo (2), and P25 Phase 2 (2).
1c) The determination of the necessary number of communications paths and the number of RF carriers is best left to the system designers and not the opinion of someone without sufficient information.

Another issue: Anyone who does not have an Open Sky radio WILL NOT be able to communicate with the system.
2a) As with any radio system. (No, I am not a proponent of OpenSky for public safety, but I am also not a proponent of using silly factoids to (overly) state your case.
2b) See #1a.

Pa has seen that as an issue and is deploying more repeater sites---in the 450 MHz range( basically an all NEW radio system, I.e.; More costs) and plans on using it's existing sites that use the national frequency of 155.475 MHz to "patch" existing radio systems in.
3a) This is about DE not PA
3b) This is not an OpenSky system; See #1a

That may sound good on paper---but when you're involved in a high stress situation---you shouldn't be wasting time asking a dispatcher to "throw a patch" or telling local law enforcment to switch to the correct frequency. Right now in most Pa State Police cars, the "old" radio system has the capability of talking the local law enforcement by flicking a channel selector in the car and not having to depend on anyone else. That will done away with with Open Sky. Also, right now, Troopers can listen to local law enforcement to know whats going on around them.
4a) This is about DE not PA
4b) This is not an OpenSky system; See #1a

One of the main potential problems is the so called "cell sites" that will be used. They are used to "fill in" dead spots that the tower sites can not reach.
5a) What "Cell Sites", where did you find reference to "Cell Sites"?
5b) How do you know how the system is to be deployed?

In Pa most of those cell sites are connected by phone lines! In bad weather if the phone lines are pulled down or receive such damage---the cell site is useless. IF the cell sites are linked via microwave or another RF form there is less likely the chance of a problem.
6a) This is about DE not PA. See #4A
6b) You are making very large assumptions about the design of a system with no supporting information.

Getting back to Project 25. Lets say that local police departments decide to go to that digital format. They can bid on and then buy P25 radios from a variety of vendors, Motorola (Ma/Com DOES make a p25 radio) Relm, GE, just about anyone.
7a) We never got away from P25, only you (and Dave a little bit) did.
7b) The State of DE is already P25, as there Motorola system has been updated.
7c) If it is trunked, then they need to be trunked P25 radios.
7d) While there are lots of P25 radios available, and even a good number are trunked, I would not say "everyone", and certainly not GE.

That's another problem for taxpayers with Open Sky. Because it is a propriety format (patended) no one else can manufacture those radios---meaning a government agency would be forced to buy from Ma/Com--no one else. (no bidding!)
8a) This is not an OpenSky system; See #1a, #2b, #3b, #4b, and #6a

That's like saying I have a radio and TV station. I will not be using the national standard to broadcast my programming. If you want to see/hear us you will have to buy the TV/radio set from us!
Isn't that what AM Stereo, SiRIUS. XM, and HD-Radio are all about?

Now, I know you have a hard-on for OpenSky, and you have allowed that to infuriate you over every action of M/A-COM (TYCO Electronics), and you relate every issue to those in PA, . . . .

. . . But maybe its time to take a chill-pill?
 

pinetree

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From what I read in other items this is not to take the place of the present 800 system but is in addition for interoperability. The amount of money this is expected to cost would not even come close to the amount needed for a replacement system.
 

PJH

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Thats how I read it.

Why they went that route instead of just adding a little capacity (if needed) I am not sure. I would imagine that this just adds in a little more complexity and finger pointing down the road.

Then again, this is a federal grant and its not "their" money, and it doesn't hurt to try something new.
 
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Thats how I read it.

Why they went that route instead of just adding a little capacity (if needed) I am not sure. I would imagine that this just adds in a little more complexity and finger pointing down the road.

Then again, this is a federal grant and its not "their" money, and it doesn't hurt to try something new.

Possibly because the 800 spectrum used by the current system is full? It being a small, flat densely populated kind of a place? And since the advent of ISSI, it is possible to link different vendor's P25 trunked equipment.

Or maybe because they didn't want to be beholden to Moto for ALL of their critical systems? Given Moto's current financial predicaments?

The cost seems to suggest that the job involves adding antennae to existing towers, and reusing infrastructure - it looks like the state drove a decent enough bargain here.
 

PJH

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Actually, Moto's radio division is the only one making any real money... Cell has been dragging them down for quite awhile, and anything that was making money...they spun off...oh well.

Densely populated state running out of freq's? Don't know about that, but I would imagine not really..

Cue in:

Waynes World said:
Delaware....yea....um....Delaware.....
 
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N_Jay

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Actually, Moto's radio division is the only one making any real money... Cell has been dragging them down for quite awhile, and anything that was making money...they spun off...oh well.

Densely populated state running out of freq's? Don't know about that, but I would imagine not really..

Cue in:


Maybe you have not tried licensing 800 MHz frequencies anywhere with 75 or so miles of a major city.
 

PJH

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Been there, done that. Just takes some research, phone calls and a little skill/paying attention.

Assisted in getting freqs for a statewide system where there were 4 trunked systems all within 20 miles of each other. We thought it was easy.

A good feat of getting stuff done is the Metro DC area where there is quite a bit of 800 systems all in a small area. Whats even better is how they can all talk to each other on common talkgroups interlinked to each system. Now thats interop at its best.
 
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