• To anyone looking to acquire commercial radio programming software:

    Please do not make requests for copies of radio programming software which is sold (or was sold) by the manufacturer for any monetary value. All requests will be deleted and a forum infraction issued. Making a request such as this is attempting to engage in software piracy and this forum cannot be involved or associated with this activity. The same goes for any private transaction via Private Message. Even if you attempt to engage in this activity in PM's we will still enforce the forum rules. Your PM's are not private and the administration has the right to read them if there's a hint to criminal activity.

    If you are having trouble legally obtaining software please state so. We do not want any hurt feelings when your vague post is mistaken for a free request. It is YOUR responsibility to properly word your request.

    To obtain Motorola software see the Sticky in the Motorola forum.

    The various other vendors often permit their dealers to sell the software online (i.e., Kenwood). Please use Google or some other search engine to find a dealer that sells the software. Typically each series or individual radio requires its own software package. Often the Kenwood software is less than $100 so don't be a cheapskate; just purchase it.

    For M/A Com/Harris/GE, etc: there are two software packages that program all current and past radios. One package is for conventional programming and the other for trunked programming. The trunked package is in upwards of $2,500. The conventional package is more reasonable though is still several hundred dollars. The benefit is you do not need multiple versions for each radio (unlike Motorola).

    This is a large and very visible forum. We cannot jeopardize the ability to provide the RadioReference services by allowing this activity to occur. Please respect this.

dPMR/Analogue Compatible Radios

Status
Not open for further replies.

GM0CSN

Newbie
Joined
Aug 17, 2017
Messages
4
Hi All,
I am contemplating trying out the dPMR digital voice mode, to be clear I am NOT referring to DMR, but to the system as standardised in Europe as DPMR using the 446Mhz frequency range, that is FDMA (frequency division multiple access) using the AMBE+2 vocoder. I do not know if there is an equivalent system in North America.
I have searched on the interweb and there are many China radios which state that they are dPMR radios, but further investigation highlights the usual Chinese manufacturers' propensity to spurious facts, errors and lies with many so-called dpmr radios turning out to be DMR (i.e. TDMA ( Time Division Multiple Access )) system radios or
if they are using the FDMA system, their vocoders are not compatible with the standard AMBE+2 adopted in Europe.
I would like to be able to program the radio with the frequencies I required (most probably the European 446PMR analogue and digital frequencies and amateur radio analogue and digital frequencies) and so the radio would need to be able to cover the 70cm amateur radio band (and 2m band if dual band) and the 446Mhz PMR frequencies and in particular to be able
to be programmed with the odd 446PMR channel frequencies with 6.25 KHz channels (for example, 446.00625MHz, 446.01875MHz, et cetra on analogue and 446.103125MHz, 446.109375MHz, 446.115625MHz et cetra on digital).

I am wondering if therev is anyone out there using/hearing of such a radio?

REQUIREMENTS

Digital using FDMA (frequency division multiple access) using the AMBE+2 vocoder
Analogue FM
Capable of working on the 6.25KHz channels of the European PMR and dPMR system
Capable of working on the 70cm amateur radio band
Programmable either via computer software and a programming lead or via the radio itself it easy

The TYT DM-UVF10 radio appeared to fit the above criteria, but I believe that the channel spaces available are not compatible with the 6.25KHz PMR channels, so that the channels wouldf not be programmed correctly.

Thanks for reading and sorry for the long email, but hope someone out there might have experience of such radios?

73 and hope catch you on the bands sometime

Robert
 

nd5y

Member
Joined
Dec 19, 2002
Messages
9,101
Location
Wichita Falls, TX
Are dDMR radios legal in North American countries?
PMR446 and dPMR use frequencies in the 446.0-446.2 band which is part of the amateur radio 70 cm band in North America (ITU region 2).
The only legal way to use those frequencies here is if you have an amateur radio license.

I don't think the OP is in North America.
 

GM0CSN

Newbie
Joined
Aug 17, 2017
Messages
4
Hi,
As nd5y points out, I am in the United Kingdom (Scotland).
In the Europe we have had a licence free PMR band, 6 channels (446.00625MHz, 446.01875MHz.....) for quite a while and recently there has been digital channels added also, hence my enquiry regarding radios.
The main problem being the vocoder employed AMBE+2 and the channel frequencies and spacing.
 

paulears

Member
Joined
Oct 14, 2015
Messages
387
Location
Lowestoft - UK
I posted a very long reply - but it got lost, or could have been on the other forum this was posted on.

I've got a number of radios that could do this - TYT S760, Kirisun DM680 and Anysecu 280. All happily work together and being honest perform as well as the DMR kits I have and the Kenwood NXDN -

I've not tried them on the PMR446 channels due to the extra power and antennas being detachable,

All mine are UHF - I'm not sure there are any dual band radios doing dPMR are there?

I just tried to programme those PMR446 frequencies into the S760, 680 and the anysecu too. All three of my dPMR radio types are happy on those channels, and the Kenwood NXDNs will happily accept that frequency set too.
 

2E0TMI

Member
Joined
Aug 22, 2017
Messages
12
Recent Dpmr

Hi as you can see by the call Im in the UK and have a Chinese Recent brand RS-309D dpmr also sold as the TS-309D which has a little brother the RS or TS-209D and I did have the vocoder details from the Recent factory but cant find it at the moment, I have not found or heard anything on the digital side so have not got a clue what it is compatible with but it is nice on 70cm and 446 FM so not a total loss, it is frequency division and programs up like a dream with a baofeng UV5r cable, anybody else got one and had any results on the digital side? would be very interested as I like the radio.
Phil
 

2E0TMI

Member
Joined
Aug 22, 2017
Messages
12
Found the strange vocoder info for the Recent RS-209D RS-309D or Topsung TS-209D TS-309D from the makers as they gave it to me, the vocoder is the IHELP version 540.1.1 from the PLA University of Science and Technology, the radio is 6.25 kHz narrowband dpmr and should be compatible with all Chinese dpmr radios using FDMA, I think the "should be" says it all as Ive not heard anything on the digital side yet on the UK dpmr frequencies set for all call on a good external antenna, I have enquired about the best 70cm digital FDMA frequencies to try from a youtube radio amateur who posted a video using FDMA on the 70cm band.
73
Phil
 

paulears

Member
Joined
Oct 14, 2015
Messages
387
Location
Lowestoft - UK
The link is a bit mangled - but links to this.
http://kenwoodcommunications.co.uk/...446/PMR446-White-Paper-V6_18AUG2016_JT_KB.pdf

People are using these channels already - but mainly the keen bods who use non-PMR446 radios in the existing band - with higher power and often antennas - the rights and wrongs of this are for others I think.

The real problem with the FDMA is simply very few people are using it. Indeed, amateur wise - I cannot get into ANY DMR repeaters or nodes from my location, apart from one that is rarely on the air, and I've never heard any digital ham activity. If you want to exchange digits with other hams and have a chat, then DMR, like Betamax is probably the most widely used. On the commercial bands, talking to themselves, small business have a much wider choice, and will be happy with all the available systems. Compatibility isn't an issue.

I can't really find any major snags, or benefits from any of the systems being sold at the moment. Unless you MUST use a particular network, they'll all work pretty well.
 

2E0TMI

Member
Joined
Aug 22, 2017
Messages
12
DPMR

My first thoughts on dpmr was the use of it as an experimental mode that is available on the dv4mini dongle but that became a non starter as when I was trying it I was told via echolink that another two users where already on there in a qso using matching tyt dpmr radios and I could not hear them or them hear me so compatibility was an issue for me, I no longer even try dpmr on the dv4mini and just leave it on dmr as like you I am out of the nearest dmr repeater footprints, saying that I would still like to have some contacts with FDMA just so I can compare it for myself but I will not buy another one just for that. Sorry about the mangled link as I just copied and pasted it so not sure what happend there? I am busy redoing a code plug for the little radio and will have a listen on those new frequencies to see if I can pick somebody up, you never know unless you try.
73
 

paulears

Member
Joined
Oct 14, 2015
Messages
387
Location
Lowestoft - UK
I don't think it works like that. My Kenwood hire radios use FDMA, but are the NXDN versions, so these cannot talk to the Kirisuns or Anysecu, although a firmware upgrade in the Kenwoods might (just might) make this work if I update all of them, I'm happy with them as they are and have no need of the update. It really is like we had with audio and video machine in the 70s onwards - Philips 1500, Philips 1700, U-matic, Beta-SP, VHS, VHS-C, S-VHS, Betamax, Hi-8, Video disc, laservision, elcassette, DAT, Minidisc.

Standards never are standards for long!
 

Your_account

Completely Banned for the Greater Good
Banned
Joined
Jul 13, 2013
Messages
1,261
Location
.AT
In the Europe we have had a licence free PMR band, 6 channels (446.00625MHz, 446.01875MHz.....) for quite a while and recently there has been digital channels added also, hence my enquiry regarding radios.
pls note the EU change it!
From now on 446.000 - 200 are Analogue AND Digital!!!!!

And you can use DMR Radios insted of dPMR!

https://hytera.co.uk/products
I use the PD365 (no not the LF...) and nobody care about my Radios.
 

2E0TMI

Member
Joined
Aug 22, 2017
Messages
12
PDMR

Yes I noticed in the Kenwood link there is a reference to DMR on the 446 band so I entered them into my tyt md380 but nothing heard so far here in the UK but I am out in the sticks a bit, and with reference to the new frequencies being added and they are analogue as well as dpmr I did hear some pigeon shooters out in the fields using the new allocation on analogue FM but yet again nothing on my dpmr radio on the digital side, I wont hold my breath.
73
 

grosminet

Member
Joined
Jan 21, 2004
Messages
273
The major trouble with chinese dPMR products is that they don't support 3.125 khz step . Only kenwood or icom dPMR products are doing this . They are not at the same price .
I tried to contact several times TYT but these chinese guys never answer to any questions .

I don't think , It would be difficult for them to modify fDM-UVF10 firmware in order to have 3.125 Khz

Most of new dPMR networks in Europe are in 3.125 Khz .

If someone has friends or good contacts at TYT, maybe he can ask them
 

Your_account

Completely Banned for the Greater Good
Banned
Joined
Jul 13, 2013
Messages
1,261
Location
.AT
I dont know how it is in UK but here in Austria/ Europe i never heard any Digital Transmission on PMR446.
My SDR run until daytime and nada!

Also Analogue isnt good to make new friends becouse the most people use a CTCSS (or how is the acronym for) for there "privacy".
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top