DSDPlus DSDPlus Channel Number

[Reconrider]

I started looking at older trunk systems that have been forgotten and not updated.

The CH number on RR trunk are different than what dsd gave me. Are the ones from dsd correct, or do i have to do some math to get the actual number?

 

[u2brent]

Beware RR uses LCN's, DSD+ uses LSN's. click on any trs sites details page.

 

[Reconrider]

Beware RR uses LCN's, DSD+ uses LSN's. click on any trs sites details page.

Crap - i thought i remember reading that somewhere. Is there a way to convert them, or is there another program for the SDRs that will show me?

Also thanks for replying

 

[GTR8000]

What systems or system types are you referring to? Sometimes they match, sometimes they don't. Also, you'll need to view the site details in the RRDB to see the LSN values for DMR systems, the main system page only displays the LCN values.

For most DMR systems, the conversion is simple. Each LCN has two LSN's, which are the slots. So LCN 1 = LSN 1/2, LCN 2 = LSN 3/4, and so on. That works for Capacity Plus and Connect Plus, when you start getting into Tier 3 systems, it's a whole different ballgame. NXDN systems are also different, and use CHID which are essentially equivalent to an LCN (since NXDN is FDMA, no slots involved).

 

[Reconrider]

What systems or system types are you referring to? Sometimes they match, sometimes they don't. Also, you'll need to view the site details in the RRDB to see the LSN values for DMR systems, the main system page only displays the LCN values.

For most DMR systems, the conversion is simple. Each LCN has two LSN's, which are the slots. So LCN 1 = LSN 1/2, LCN 2 = LSN 3/4, and so on. That works for Capacity Plus and Connect Plus, when you start getting into Tier 3 systems, it's a whole different ballgame. NXDN systems are also different, and use CHID which are essentially equivalent to an LCN (since NXDN is FDMA, no slots involved).

Homeland Defense Network Trunking System, Various, Connecticut

Homeland Defense Network Trunking System Profile

www.radioreference.com

That's the system I'm trying to work on. I've uploaded the system on my sds, but i never hear anything. While using dsd for the past 2 hours on the system, I've heard more traffic than I've ever heard. I'm not close enough to the system to use the stock sds100 antenna to use the LCN finder otherwise I would.

 

[u2brent]

Homeland Defense Network Trunking System, Various, Connecticut

Homeland Defense Network Trunking System Profile

www.radioreference.com

That's the system I'm trying to work on. I've uploaded the system on my sds, but i never hear anything. While using dsd for the past 2 hours on the system, I've heard more traffic than I've ever heard. I'm not close enough to the system to use the stock sds100 antenna to use the LCN finder otherwise I would.

NXDN CH#'s are = to LCN#'s
although they may follow a standard band plan.
DSD may have an easier time decoding the traffic compared to a scanner.

 

[GTR8000]

Homeland Defense Network Trunking System, Various, Connecticut

Homeland Defense Network Trunking System Profile

www.radioreference.com

That's the system I'm trying to work on. I've uploaded the system on my sds, but i never hear anything. While using dsd for the past 2 hours on the system, I've heard more traffic than I've ever heard. I'm not close enough to the system to use the stock sds100 antenna to use the LCN finder otherwise I would.

It's entirely possible that the CH ID values in the RRDB for that system are outdated or incorrect. Can you post a screenshot of DSD+ decoding one of the sites? Let's have a look and see what it shows vs the RRDB listings.

EDIT: I forgot to mention that DMR Tier 3 systems use "CH ID" similar to NXDN, they do not use LCN/LSN like most other DMR system types.

 

[Reconrider]

It's entirely possible that the CH ID values in the RRDB for that system are outdated or incorrect. Can you post a screenshot of DSD+ decoding one of the sites? Let's have a look and see what it shows vs the RRDB listings.

EDIT: I forgot to mention that DMR Tier 3 systems use "CH ID" similar to NXDN, they do not use LCN/LSN like most other DMR system types.

What kind of info would you like?
I have a small picture of the control event box. I can get more if you'd like, just have to run the system again. I turned it off after I started getting annoyed at not understanding rr vs dsd channel numbering logics

Screenshot

Captured with Lightshot

prnt.sc

 

[GTR8000]

Yeah, the channel numbers don't match at all, not even if you double the LCN in the RRDB to get the LSN. Tier 3 systems can be tricky in Uniden scanners.

Try the following LCN in your SDS and see if it works:

451.375 LCN 111 or 112
452.150 LCN 173 or 174
452.850 LCN 229 or 230

Obviously you can just run LCN finder on the site once you're in range with the SDS, so I suppose trying those values is kind of pointless. 🤷‍♂️

 

[Reconrider]

NXDN CH#'s are = to LCN#'s
although they may follow a standard band plan.
DSD may have an easier time decoding the traffic compared to a scanner.

Why would dsd have an easier time? I'm still new to all this, so learning is fun and good.

 

[Reconrider]

Yeah, the channel numbers don't match at all, not even if you double the LCN in the RRDB to get the LSN. Tier 3 systems can be tricky in Uniden scanners.

Try the following LCN in your SDS and see if it works:

451.375 LCN 111 or 112
452.150 LCN 173 or 174
452.850 LCN 229 or 230

Obviously you can just run LCN finder on the site once you're in range with the SDS, so I suppose trying those values is kind of pointless. 🤷‍♂️

Yes and no. I'm able to learn how to get the LCNs from DSDs LSNs so it's still good.

Maybe you know why the CC isn't being found by a frequency?
my dsdplus.frequencies file looks like this

Spoiler: DSDPlus.frequencies

[CODE
TIII, 13, 1.4, 0, 451.3750, 0.0, 0
TIII, 13, 1.4, 0, 451.3750, 0.0, 0
TIII, 13, 1.4, 0, 452.1500, 0.0, 0
TIII, 13, 1.4, 0, 452.1500, 0.0, 0
TIII, 13, 1.4, 0, 452.8500, 0.0, 0
TIII, 13, 1.4, 0, 452.8500, 0.0, 0
TIII, 13, 1.4, 0, 463.5125, 0.0, 0


TIII, 13, 1.4, 0, 0.0, 451.3750, 0
TIII, 13, 1.4, 0, 0.0, 451.3750, 0
TIII, 13, 1.4, 0, 0.0, 452.1500, 0
TIII, 13, 1.4, 0, 0.0, 452.1500, 0
TIII, 13, 1.4, 0, 0.0, 452.8500, 0
TIII, 13, 1.4, 0, 0.0, 452.8500, 0
TIII, 13, 1.4, 0, 0.0, 463.5125, 0
[/CODE]

 

[u2brent]

I made a big oops on my first glance at the system, I somehow had NXDN in my mind, I see it's clearly DMR TIII.
Sorry. As has been pointed out, If the RR DB has outdated data, The scanner will just not work, (until the LCN's are determined and corrected). This could be the scanners problem with the system.. Worth pointing out that Uniden's scanners seem to have known issues with certain DMR TIII systems as found throughout various comments in the forums.

More info on Uniden & DMR programming here..

http://info.uniden.com/twiki/bin/view/UnidenMan4/DigitalMobileRadioUpgrade?

 

[Reconrider]

I made a big oops on my first glance at the system, I somehow had NXDN in my mind, I see it's clearly DMR TIII.
Sorry. As has been pointed out, If the RR DB has outdated data, The scanner will just not work, (until the LCN's are determined and corrected). This could be the scanners problem with the system.. Worth pointing out that Uniden's scanners seem to have known issues with certain DMR TIII systems as found throughout various comments in the forums.

More info on Uniden & DMR programming here..

http://info.uniden.com/twiki/bin/view/UnidenMan4/DigitalMobileRadioUpgrade?

i figured the lcns were wrong. ill have to try getting closer to the system so i can run the lcn finder, or try the lcns gtr told me to try.

 

[pro92b]

More info on Uniden & DMR programming here..

http://info.uniden.com/twiki/bin/view/UnidenMan4/DigitalMobileRadioUpgrade?

The DMR Tier III info at the Uniden link is incorrect. The correct formula for relating DSD+ slot numbers to LCNs is shown here: BCD436HP: - Does LCN Finder work on DMR systems?

Then
451.375 = LCN 111
452.15 = LCN 173
452.85 = LCN 229

There are three combinations of two frequencies above. From that you can find the RF frequency step for each increment in the LCN. For this system the RF frequency increases by 12.5 kHz for each increment of the LCN. This is the most common step size for TIII. That information can be used to extrapolate the LCN for 463.5125 and it calculates to be LCN = 1082.

 

[cg]

That is a Hytera TIII system which Uniden scanners do not track. There were efforts by UPMan to figure out and fix it but he passed away before completing it. It was added to the new guy's list

chris

 

[pro92b]

The BCD996P2 and BCD325P2 reportedly have trouble with Hytera TIII. But my BCD536HP does track a TIII Hytera system here. Presumably the BCD436HP would work as well. The SDS scanners might track Hytera TIII like the BCDx36HP does.

 

[Reconrider]

That is a Hytera TIII system which Uniden scanners do not track. There were efforts by UPMan to figure out and fix it but he passed away before completing it. It was added to the new guy's list

chris

I zeroed out all the LCNs on my sds100. Ran the system and I was hearing 1 talkgroup. I was closer in the area today than I normally am but lcn finder kept timing out.

 

[Reconrider]

The BCD996P2 and BCD325P2 reportedly have trouble with Hytera TIII. But my BCD536HP does track a TIII Hytera system here. Presumably the BCD436HP would work as well. The SDS scanners might track Hytera TIII like the BCDx36HP does.

I had ID search on and all sites with LCNs set to 0. It didn't have any issues keeping up with dsd when I was closer on friday. I just didn't think about using lcn finder until I'm not near it

 

[Kazzaw]

I have a Hytera system here that doesn't track. This specific system broadcasts the channel and frequency, it seems the SDS100 doesn't like that

 

[Reconrider]

I have a Hytera system here that doesn't track. This specific system broadcasts the channel and frequency, it seems the SDS100 doesn't like that

It’s weird. Doesn’t seem consistent at all.