DuPage Co. ETSB to sole source Motorola SC21?

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Squad10

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Now that DuPage Co. ETSB is considering StarCom21, is this good news for DuPage scanning?

DuPage Co. ETSB was set to purchase a private network sole source from Motorola. Because of the high cost of the private system, they are now considering StarCom21. Harris has native compatibility with StarCom21.

If the DuPage Co. ETSB decides to sole source Motorola for StarCom21, Harris may legally challenge the ETSB decision. Litigation of the matter may result in prospective StarCom21 agencies to continue to use their existing conventional (non-encrypted) analog systems until the issue has been litigated.

Litigation may be good for the scanning of DuPage Co.
 

ilgrant

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Hard to say if it is good for DuPage County from a listener standpoint.

If Dupage gives the nod to SC21 then 4 additional towers will need to be built and will have access across the county in 9 months.

It should be noted that police want encryption according to public documents. Whether that means encryption across the board or in certain cases (i.e. switch to encrypted talkgroup instead of calling on cell phone, surveillance, etc.) remains to be seen.

Dupage awarded the contract in 2006 to sole source Motorola. I would think it would have been challenged by now.
 

Squad10

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Hard to say if it is good for DuPage County from a listener standpoint.

If Dupage gives the nod to SC21 then 4 additional towers will need to be built and will have access across the county in 9 months.

It should be noted that police want encryption according to public documents. Whether that means encryption across the board or in certain cases (i.e. switch to encrypted talkgroup instead of calling on cell phone, surveillance, etc.) remains to be seen.

Dupage awarded the contract in 2006 to sole source Motorola. I would think it would have been challenged by now.
In 2006, DuPage addressed M/A-Com. In 2010, DuPage would need to address Harris.
 

Squad10

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Perhaps. I'm not sure where the opening is to have Harris pursue litigation. The opening in my mind was 2006/7 when it was MA/Comm.

It's my understanding the M/A-Com representative reviewed the 2006 Motorola contract, and felt the contract was ridiculous and outrageous. I never heard of M/A-Com legally challenging the matter.

With the DuPage County StarCom21 Subsystem Alternative and the deep pockets of Harris, this could result in a new ballgame. It depends if Harris wants to pursue the matter.

DuPage County wants sole source Motorola, they have made that perfectly clear by their actions. Harris has native compatibility with StarCom21. The question is whether Harris will legally challenge a sole source Motorola procurement... and if the State of Illinois being a StarCom21 partner will attempt to intervene to help their partner, Motorola.

In my opinion, DuPage Co. ETSB has put themselves in a very interesting position. They have paid $2.7 million to Motorola since the 2006 contract signing, and they are uncertain about a penalty for contract cancellation. ETSB has stated that the contract cancellation issue will require review and opinion by the DuPage County States Attorneys.

The PSIC grant money is critical for DuPage to more forward, and the grant is time sensitive.

The StarCom21 Quality of Signal (or Lack of Quality of Signal) is another can of worms. ETSB only knows the QoS for StarCom21 and not for the current analog systems being used in DuPage that could move to StarCom21. If StarCom21 QofS is worse than the current analog systems, this could place first responders in a more dangerous situation than what they currently experience.

This could get interesting if Harris challenges the legality of sole source.

Can the State of Illinois devise a legal means by law that makes it illegal for Harris (or I should say, non Motorola) to sell subscribers onto the StarCom21 network? - Or is this the case already?
 

RoninJoliet

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With the latest testing going on on Starcom of the new Dupage system in the bowels of hospitals and other surroundings it sure sounds like there are only a very few dead spots...Even had the FD in full tank-head-dress testing the FGrounds and it sounded very good....Wait till the foliage returns to the tree's and we will see how the 700/800 digital reacts....They been at it all week.....
 

Squad10

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With the latest testing going on on Starcom of the new Dupage system in the bowels of hospitals and other surroundings it sure sounds like there are only a very few dead spots...Even had the FD in full tank-head-dress testing the FGrounds and it sounded very good....Wait till the foliage returns to the tree's and we will see how the 700/800 digital reacts....They been at it all week.....
My question is how this "good" quality of signal that you hear is being achieved for the FD. Is the FD using a mobile repeater, bidirectional amplifier, VHF to StarCom cross patch, or communicating directly to a fixed station? Too bad the subscriber receive audio can't be heard by anybody except people near the radio.

I don't know, maybe Motorola has already put the additional infrastructure in place that provides 12dB up from 8dB.

For the magnitude of the DuPage order, estimated at 2500 subscribers and the associated 2500 subscription fees, I would believe Motorola would do just about anything to secure the order, if they have already have not.

Didn't JJC security cease using StarCom21 because of lack of in-building coverage?

What about Plainfield PD, do the officers feel safer using StarCom rather than their old system?

I just hope whatever the outcome of all this is, the first responders feel the new system offers them the same or better communication than what they are currently using. It's multi-millions of federal and local taxpayer dollars for hardware, software and network usage fees. It's BIG business.
 

ilgrant

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No BDA's were used in any of the testing. The testing may show that BDA's need to be installed in several locations.

Infrastructure is not in place to cover all areas of the county. Four additional sites will be required. The testing done was using the current tower configuration.

Yes, JJC had problems because of poor in-building coverage and discontinued Starcom. Even on the current system they switched to I heard that it isn't a panacea.

Not sure about Plainfield's feeling of security but I understand that a tower was installed that gives Plainfield much better coverage than they did previously.

Anyone monitoring the testing has to understand that it is with the current tower coverage. When the additional towers are installed poor coverage areas should be resolved.
 

RoninJoliet

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JJC had VERY poor coverage on Starcom, i live hear and can attest to that, Plainfield , before the recent Starcom Antennas were installed on a water tower behind the village had some real BAD language about Starcom....Plainfield does much better now but it seems that the quality of the audio on the radio's they are using is not that of the actual Starcom Toll Way and other district radios...From listening to the testing this week on Ducom in hospitals etc seems like the coverage is very good as T101 is in there back yard....I heard them say they will transform many now used towers in Dupage Co to Starcom towers....I have been told they read all this stuf we print about them and do not like it but "Freedom of Speech" is my perrogative....
 

Squad10

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JJC had VERY poor coverage on Starcom, i live hear and can attest to that, Plainfield , before the recent Starcom Antennas were installed on a water tower behind the village had some real BAD language about Starcom....Plainfield does much better now but it seems that the quality of the audio on the radio's they are using is not that of the actual Starcom Toll Way and other district radios...From listening to the testing this week on Ducom in hospitals etc seems like the coverage is very good as T101 is in there back yard....I heard them say they will transform many now used towers in Dupage Co to Starcom towers....I have been told they read all this stuf we print about them and do not like it but "Freedom of Speech" is my perrogative....
Do you know why they do not like it?
 
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N_Jay

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Now that DuPage Co. ETSB is considering StarCom21, is this good news for DuPage scanning?

DuPage Co. ETSB was set to purchase a private network sole source from Motorola. Because of the high cost of the private system, they are now considering StarCom21. Harris has native compatibility with StarCom21.

If the DuPage Co. ETSB decides to sole source Motorola for StarCom21, Harris may legally challenge the ETSB decision. Litigation of the matter may result in prospective StarCom21 agencies to continue to use their existing conventional (non-encrypted) analog systems until the issue has been litigated.

Litigation may be good for the scanning of DuPage Co.
If they are expanding the infrastructure, then it has to be Motorola. You can not mix infrastructure within the same system (RFSS).

Also, seems a little odd, because I thought that DuPage was one of the TDMA systems?
 

ilgrant

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The plans for the TDMA system from Motorola appears to be dead because of the $48 mil cost. (I say 'appears' because it hasn't been formally killed yet.)
 

Squad10

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What do you mean by this?
I pulled the statement from a document that I found on the web. I searched for the doc but could not locate it. I never heard it used before, but the feeling I got from the read is that it was used in the same context as native resolution of an LCD.

Native resolution - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I'll search again for the doc when I have time. Or ask Harris.

If you have not already, search <DuPage ETSB> for documents that will paint a better picture of the endeavers of the Radio Project Sterring Committee related to this thread.
 
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N_Jay

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Not sure how I missed your post yesterday.

Since I don't ever recall seeing it used that way I a document, I can only tell you what I know.

1) Harris (or just about any) P25 field equipment should work just fine on a Motorola ASTRO25 system unless you are using one of a small set of features that are unique to Motorola.

2) You can not add a site or transmitters from any other vendor to a Motorola (or most other) P25 systems.

To the best of my knowledge these are facts and not simply my opinion.

So my guess is the statement was speaking on the field equipment.

Adding sites to StarCom 21 is probably irrelevant since I believe that Motorola actually own the infrastructure anyhow. (Sites would be added and their cost would be included in the ongoing operating charged for the agency coming on-board and buying their own field equipment.
 

Squad10

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Harris (or just about any) P25 field equipment should work just fine on a Motorola ASTRO25 system unless you are using one of a small set of features that are unique to Motorola.

What are the small set of features that are unique to Motorola?
 
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