DURABLE Scanners!?!?

[nanZor]

That's what is so frustrating about my 396XT which I love - the audio. It wants to be used in loud environments, but unfortunately one has to use a commercial radio to get above the usual noise levels - if you like clean audio. I really WANT to use my 396 for serious monitoring that goes beyond mere hobby duties.

I don't need it to be fireground-loud, but anything would be better.

When I held the small Motorola Visar for the first time, I was blown away - and it proves that audio like this is possible in a small case. I'd be willing to pay more to get that kind of audio from either GRE or Uniden.

 

[RadioDaze]

Okay. I stand corrected. What can I say I must have been on glue or just tired this morning. As the price has come down the volume of sales has gone up. No doubt they could be sold even cheaper and made tougher if they manage to get the sales volumes to mass market levels. I have a couple of Midland "bubble pack" GMRS radios that are tougher than my scanner, work amazingly well, they are 5W, and were dirt cheap. I think I got the pair on sale for $50.

Don't back down too quickly. The bubble pack radios are a utility item that many people can and do justify purchasing. It's a much bigger market than scanners. Bubble pack radios go hiking, camping, sailing, hunting, biking, skiing, and who knows what else with people. How many of those same people would have any reason to have any scanner on hand, let alone an expensive one. I think even the obvious market for rugged scanners - professional public safety individuals - is ultimately quite small. Making a rugged scanner cheaper isn't going to bring up the volume beyond the existing market for scanners overall. "We lose $120 on every scanner we sell, but we make up for it with volume" just isn't going to work.

Maybe Yaesu could manufacture a rugged scanner easier and cheaper than GRE or Uniden. But trunking digital receivers just doesn't seem to be their thing.

I never said there was NO market; I'd be one of the first to pony up the extra $XXX over and above the cost of a "regular" scanner. But I don't think enough people would.

Ruggedizing (?) probably should be done in an evolutionary manner - each release of a new model should have some element incorporated in... start with a metal chassis, then next time add a nice texturized heavy-duty plastic case...

The Unidens are already perceived as tougher, maybe partly because of the density, i.e., the weight/size ratio. It doesn't seem to "flex" like my GRE does.

 

[dugan]

Ruggedizing (?) probably should be done in an evolutionary manner - each release of a new model should have some element incorporated in... start with a metal chassis, then next time add a nice texturized heavy-duty plastic case...

The Unidens are already perceived as tougher, maybe partly because of the density, i.e., the weight/size ratio. It doesn't seem to "flex" like my GRE does.[/QUOTE]

The only thing on my GRE that really me is the BNC connector. I just don't have a lot of faith that it could take much abuse. That is why I made a short extension that acts like a strain relief. I've had the PRS500 for a year and I carry it around a lot, and it still looks like new. That is why I said in an earlier post that it is tough enough.

I used to program a Symbol barcode scanner, that was built around a Palm Pilot. The first non-ruggedized units were about as tough as your average Palm, not very tough. They were used in warehouse environments and once they found the market the produced a much more expensive rugged model. They also made a very nice "boot" for the existing units and it provided enough protection that you could repeatedly drop you Palm scanner with no worries.

If GRE had a well designed, well fitting, boot made that would protect the radio from bumps, reinforce the BNC and protect the unit in general, they would go a long way to making customers happier. The Palm/Symbol rugged "boot" also incorporated a fold out stand, really improved the toughness of the unit and fit well for a price around $30.

When I said, "I stand corrected", it was mainly about the "just good enough" remark. It should have been something like "the best we can build for the money". That is what any company should strive for.

 

[gewecke]

The first thing I did after buying my pro-106 (even before the warranty was up) was to open the radio and swap out the cheap sub par bnc connector with one from Amphenol commercial grade and then secure it with loc-tite on both the internal screw and the retainer nut.
No problems to date,so far.
As far as a way to make it a bit more rugged, I like the idea someone posted about a rubber "skin" such as the one's marketed for the dumb phones and such? This is a accessory waiting to happen in the scanner market!

73,
n9zas

 

[KI6LWI]

Perhaps they should be looking at some of the production methods of other manufacturers in the amateur and commercial radio fields. I've got a Puxing PX-777 VHF HT that I've had almost 4 years, used nearly every day. It's got a durable case made of thick black texturized hard plastic, buttons with backlit text molded in and that have a nice tactile feel when pressed, an included lithium battery that lasts all week before it needs a charge, spring loaded heavy duty belt clip, and it's been dropped several times and still looks brand new. How can a cheap Chinese radio that costs $70 including shipping have this kind of build quality, but a $400+ scanner comes with a flimsy plastic case, paint that flakes off, a cheap plastic belt clip that breaks, buttons with text that wears off, and no batteries? Uniden and GRE need to get their act together if they expect to survive against up-and-coming manufacturers in these tough economic times...

 

[OCO]

a $400+ scanner comes with a flimsy plastic case, paint that flakes off, a cheap plastic belt clip that breaks, buttons with text that wears off, and no batteries? Uniden and GRE need to get their act together

Uhh... I think that describes one current scanner and Uniden isn't the one building it. You forgot the BNC connector..

 

[mancow]

What I can't understand is why nobody adopted the TNC. It's a far superior connector.

 

[krokus]

I would suggest not sending it to RS for repair, unless it is a warranty issue.

If you do not have someone you know that is capable, I would suggest sending it to GRE for repair. There are multiple posts from people on here, that have been happy with GRE's service, and at least as many that are not happy with RS's quality of service. (Their service center quality has declined, from what I perceive.)

I do not have a high opinion of the BNC on the GRE scanners. (I have had issues with my Pro-39 and my PSR-500 BNC connectors.) I would find a quality BNC to replace it with.

 

[krokus]

I have seen one XTS-3000 that went through a commercial snow blower. (I still don't know if it was one for the sidewalk, or one for the airfield.) The radio fared better than I would have thought, but was not serviceable.

 

[OCO]

I don't care for a threaded connector where I'm going to be taking it off quite often - I don't like the SMA on the HP1 just for that reason and why I ordered the adapter with the radio. Actually, the BNC is alright, it was intended for frequent connect/disconnects like lab and network equipment. What it requires is a solid mount, and a decently engineered connection internally to the board, in addition to the BNC connector itself being a well made, quality piece. I've got a BC100XL from 20+ years ago that's as solid as the day I bought it.

 

[mancow]

It's a bit more work but I will suffer the few turns for a completely solid connector. I'm so sick of the wobbly crap *** BNCs that everyone uses. The military uses the TNC on the PRC148 and 152 because they are rock solid and will support a 4 foot tape whip. Plus, for whatever reason they don't suffer the metal shaving buildup issue that the tiny SMAs seem to gather. I would like to get a few of the connectors the military uses on theirs. I don't know what they are buy you could chip your way out of a cave with them. They are some sort of hardened steel that will eat up the antenna connector long before they begin to even show wear.

 

[NewSDScanner]

perhaps they should be looking at some of the production methods of other manufacturers in the amateur and commercial radio fields. I've got a puxing px-777 vhf ht that i've had almost 4 years, used nearly every day. It's got a durable case made of thick black texturized hard plastic, buttons with backlit text molded in and that have a nice tactile feel when pressed, an included lithium battery that lasts all week before it needs a charge, spring loaded heavy duty belt clip, and it's been dropped several times and still looks brand new. How can a cheap chinese radio that costs $70 including shipping have this kind of build quality, but a $400+ scanner comes with a flimsy plastic case, paint that flakes off, a cheap plastic belt clip that breaks, buttons with text that wears off, and no batteries? Uniden and gre need to get their act together if they expect to survive against up-and-coming manufacturers in these tough economic times...

exactly.

 

[KI6LWI]

It's a bit more work but I will suffer the few turns for a completely solid connector. I'm so sick of the wobbly crap *** BNCs that everyone uses. The military uses the TNC on the PRC148 and 152 because they are rock solid and will support a 4 foot tape whip. Plus, for whatever reason they don't suffer the metal shaving buildup issue that the tiny SMAs seem to gather. I would like to get a few of the connectors the military uses on theirs. I don't know what they are buy you could chip your way out of a cave with them. They are some sort of hardened steel that will eat up the antenna connector long before they begin to even show wear.

I never paid a whole lot of attention to those connectors, but I'd guess the shells are made of stainless steel instead of the typical chrome or silver plated brass that most consumer-spec connectors are made out of. If I don't forget between now and then, I'll try to take a closer look at one of the PRC-152s at work sometime this week and see if I can verify this.

 

[OCO]

When you have little or no engineering or tooling costs and even rip off the board artwork, you can build stuff really cheap. Most of the components in a HT are now commodity items, while the digital scanners have to either license DVSI's code or their Vocoder chip, which is rumored to be really expensive. We're never going to hear what it actually costs GRE or Uniden to build a unit, but component+R&D/engineering+licensing is going to be much higher than a knockoff of a Kenwood/Yaseau/Icom HT. I'm guessing that the only reason that we aren't seeing scanner knockoffs is the FCC type acceptance would most likely catch the ripoff of the DVSI proprietary IP. This is not to say that the quality of the scanners couldn't be improved - I mean how tough is it to keep paint on?

Don't look for those Chinese products to continue to be low bucks either - they've got labor problems, and some of the environmental shortcuts they've taken in their factories are catching up too. I read an article the other day about US manufacturers onshoring production of hard goods because of issues with Chinese quality controls....

 

[mharris]

I'm hopeful one of the two will come up with a semi-rugged solution with a tight front end and high audio.

There are many on this board experiencing trouble with too much RF, noisy, and rough environments. If I want to hear anything driving on the freeway I have to turn the volume up to full on my 800 and HP. I've found this applies to most American cars, with the exception of some high end models that have outside noise suppression. It definitely applies to every Public Safety vehicle I've ever driven.

I think this thread is a great start and might just catch someones attention. I'm guessing a new scanner wont sell if its over the $500 mark (considering that's as high as they've gone thus far). Maybe someone will figure out how to do it in a cost effective way. Soon I hope.

Matt

 

[krokus]

You could install an amplified external speaker, and plug your scanner in to that, when in the vehicle.

 

[krokus]

Add me to the list of people willing to pay a reasonable amount more, for a more durable case. I have been through multiple belt clips, battery covers, and back cases on my PSR-500.

I have talked about this with GRE, when placing my orders with them. They have sounded surprised that the belt clips were breaking out their mounts.

 

[RadioDaze]

A professional radio is better in so many different ways, ranging from engineering, to physical construction, to actual performance. Our consumer-grade scanners have such a long way to go to reach this level that it's very easy to underestimate the cost of bringing this hypothetical "ruggedized" scanner to market.

How many of the scanners we use really need to survive our running down the street to tackle a perp, getting banged against the ground, and still be able to call for backup [or perform its scanning functions]... on a daily basis. What is the percentage of scanner buyers whose lives actually depend on the reliability of the scanner? I'm guessing less than 5%, conservatively.

 

[JoeyC]

I'm guessing less than 5%, conservatively.

That many? :lol:

 

[JnglMassiv]

My abridged wish list:
Ruggedized housing and boards;
Loud audio;
Drop-in charger,
Keypad screen printing that holds up;
Small size (think Yasesu VX-5 or 7 series)
Hadn't thought of it before reading it here but an improved antenna connector is a good thought.

My primary scanner is a Uniden BC246T that I bought, what..? 6 years ago? I have fairly well abused it, routinely tossing it on the passenger seat when I climb in the car, carrying it by the antenna, many, many drops from counter height, the odd splash or two with a dusting of snow. The audio is weak and the battery life is bad but they did an alright job with that radio. In the durability department, I can't complain.