EDACS Provice in OKC

[dbestfirefighter]

I was mulling around and found this in RR. I dont know if this has been posted in the OK forum yet, and since I know that the big wigs in OKC (the ones that decided on and maintain the provoice system)read this forum I thought I would paste it so they could read what the future has in store for them....lol good choice with my tax dollars guys.....

New Orleans City officials have decided to replace their existing EDACS ProVoice system, with a new 700 MHz, Project 25 simulcast TRS. The state-of-the-art communications system, will be a fully-functioning subsystem of the Louisiana Totally Interoperable Environment (LATIE) TRS. Moreover, the new radio system will allow for total and complete interoperability with all public safety first responders across the state.

The decision to replace the current EDACS ProVoice System, manufactured by M/A-COM, comes on the heels of the disastrous events during and following the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina. Communications between the city and surrounding areas were cutoff, and the ProVoice system suffered a total and complete failure from the flood waters that immediately followed in the wake of this killer storm, leaving the City with no means of communicating to their public safety units. Therefore, the decision was made during the rebuilding process to completely replace the current radio system, with Project 25 technology that would be fully compatible with neighboring parishes and the rest of the state.

New Orleans City officials feel that it is imperative that all public safety units be on the same page with the rest of the state, to promote complete uniformity when a major disaster strikes. By becoming part of the LATIE TRS, this will take the city forward into the 21st Century, with a radio system that will allow a faster, more coordinated response for all agencies at the city, parish, state, and even federal levels, during a major crisis; hence, promoting a true interoperable environment for mission critical communications. These are lessons that should be learned by all communities across the nation, to prevent a repeat of what happened in the Crescent City last August 29th, and the many weeks that followed.

 

[mam1081]

Yea, I saw that and posted it a while back:
http://www.radioreference.com/forums/showthread.php?t=30559

Pretty interesting, huh? I guess they should start thinking about how to sell a new $100 million 700/800 P25 TRS to the taxpayers before too long.:wink: ...or maybe a Giga-buck statewide interoperable system!

One good thing - the P7100 and the M7100 (the radios that the PD/FD have) should be compatible with a true P25 system.

 

[2112]

I think it's a little rash to be judging OKC's purchase of a ProVoice system solely against NOLA's teardown of theirs. Too many factors and variables are involved. For example:

NOLA's ProVoice system could have failed because of lack of maintenance. This is not-so-farfetched, considering the stories we've read about NOLA's and LA's governments not being properly prepared to begin with. They've been pointing fingers at scapegoats ever since the hurricane landed.

The NOLA system could have been poorly engineered to begin with. I've seen too many cases (makes me sick) where ignorant people at the tops of management stacks mandate budgets so that their pet projects are funded instead of *truly* mission-critical projects.

How will a Motorola 700 MHz system be "totally interoperable" anymore than their previous ProVoice system, outside of that the kneejerk reaction of throwing truckloads of cash at the new system will hopefully make it better engineered, maintained, and connected? After all... analog conventional Motorola VHF radios can't talk on digital trunked Motorola 700 MHz radio systems any easier than the same radios can talk on ProVoice systems (read: you need patches and links in either case).

My thought is that if those involved in the politics down there were more concerned with actually doing their jobs than they might have been with buying votes *before* this all happened, their previous system might could've been setup to handle the emergency properly. Instead, they'll just scapegoat the radio system and M/A-Com and use it as an excuse to leverage the truckloads of cash inbound into another vote-buying opportunity. I'd hedge my bets that the next time that the system is *truly* tested, it's importance will have already been forgotten about long enough so that the system will have fallen into neglect and will also fail. The cycle will repeat and Motorola will be the bad guys.

So, in my opinion, using this article as a basis to hate on M/A-Com seems nonsensical. I could be wrong, but this seems more like just another attempt to hate on Mean Ol' Unscannable M/A-Com ProVoice. I mean... I betcha Lincoln Co's TRS is even less interoperable than OKC's will be... but I don't hear all the complaining. Is that because Lincoln's system is LTR and can be plugged into the scanner easily?

I believe that judgment on whether or not OKC made a wise choice in their purchase of ProVoice equipment should be withheld until actual usage and operations statistics and/or case studies become available. Remember, those running the City are responsible for making sure the City has what it needs; they are not responsible for making sure that we scannerists have what we want.

Peace.

PS: Related thread: http://www.radioreference.com/forums/showthread.php?t=34105

 

[dbestfirefighter]

2112 your way out of your league. Leave the digital discussion with people that use the system, KNOW WHAT THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT, and can monitor it with no problem.

 

[woodyrr]

Actually, the new NOLA - LATIE sub-system need not be Motorola. The single greatest feature of P25, in my opinion, is that it is a well established and open digital suite of standards that is being adopted by leaps and bounds world-wide.

Nobody is preventing M/A COM from combining an infrastructure as bullet proof as the system that they configured for Oklahoma City appears to be with a 100% P25 compliant radio communications system. In fact, I believe that it would be a very intelligent and profitable business decision for them to abandon EDACS and to focus on P25 if they can do it at a competitive price. In my opinion, a radio system of that caliber would be worth spending money on.

I see it as a win-win that allows a public safety agency to enjoy an exemplary radio system that allows for increasing opportunities for interoperablilty as agencies adopt P25. It provides the ability to encrypt that traffic that absolutely needs to be kept confidential, yet does not exclude adjacent agencies, the media, and the public from following the day to day routine happenings in their community.

 

[grack]

Wow, discussions are limited to certain people now? My my my, things sure are a changing around here.

 

[CommShrek]

2112 your way out of your league. Leave the digital discussion with people that use the system, KNOW WHAT THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT, and can monitor it with no problem.

If discussions here were limited to people who use the system or people who know what they are talking about, there woulnd't be much of a forum.

Must focus more on being "d best hose sprayer"....

 

[2112]

2112 your way out of your league. Leave the digital discussion with people that use the system, KNOW WHAT THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT, and can monitor it with no problem.

Sorry Commander... your obvious grasp of my credentials and your apparent authority in matters such as this should have indicated to me that I should not have posted at all.

Not so much. Last time I checked, you were not a moderator or administrator here. And you have no idea what you are talking about when it comes to my credentials and abilities.

Let me guess... you have no problem monitoring the NOLA systems, so you should be able to post, and everyone else should just STFU.

Why are you so defensive about all of this?

 

[dbestfirefighter]

2112 Just stick to listening you MIGHT be real good at that. 2bravo say your department gave you a SCBA known to be faulty and flawed would you use it? If you had a chance to give your thoughts to the SOB who bought it would you? And for whom ever wants to write in and give his or her comments on the new system please submit to previous thread mentioned. This was a posting ment for the people that run/operate/buy/maintain/program/ the OKC EDACS system. I know you all read these forums. ps Hope the kickback was whole lot more than a life of a person who depends on this system for his saftey and wellbeing.

 

[car2back]

2112 Just stick to listening you MIGHT be real good at that. 2bravo say your department gave you a SCBA known to be faulty and flawed would you use it? If you had a chance to give your thoughts to the SOB who bought it would you? And for whom ever wants to write in and give his or her comments on the new system please submit to previous thread mentioned. This was a posting ment for the people that run/operate/buy/maintain/program/ the OKC EDACS system. I know you all read these forums. ps Hope the kickback was whole lot more than a life of a person who depends on this system for his saftey and wellbeing.

dbesthosemonkey If you really think you have something constructive to offer those who "run/operate/buy/maintain/program/ the OKC EDACS system" a more appropriate way to contact them than a scanner message board would be to call 405-297-1000 and ask for the communications supervisor.

Maybe you should ask for a job application too, sense you seem so eager to help! :lol:

 

[2112]

2112 Just stick to listening you MIGHT be real good at that. 2bravo say your department gave you a SCBA known to be faulty and flawed would you use it? If you had a chance to give your thoughts to the SOB who bought it would you? And for whom ever wants to write in and give his or her comments on the new system please submit to previous thread mentioned. This was a posting ment for the people that run/operate/buy/maintain/program/ the OKC EDACS system. I know you all read these forums. ps Hope the kickback was whole lot more than a life of a person who depends on this system for his saftey and wellbeing.

Just to clue you in, dbest, I'm the comms director for one of the cities in the OKC metro, and we are interested in patching our systems to their system for interoperability. Mouth, meet foot. Foot, mouth. I mean, really... if your post was in fact to benefit those affiliated with the system and generate convos between those folks, how in the wide world of sports could you talk the way you talked to me without having any clue about me to begin with?

ProVoice is not any more faulty or flawed than any other TRS. I realize that this point means nothing to scannerists bent on defaming ProVoice because it happens not to be monitorable in their consumer scanners. Just like ASTRO was horrible and bad years ago before the advent of P25-capable scanners. Once the P25 scanners hit the market, all the bad talk about ASTRO went away. Merely coincidence?

 

[car2back]

Just to clue you in, dbest, I'm the comms director for one of the cities in the OKC metro, and we are interested in patching our systems to their system for interoperability. Mouth, meet foot. Foot, mouth.....

doah! :lol:

 

[CommShrek]

2bravo say your department gave you a SCBA known to be faulty and flawed would you use it? If you had a chance to give your thoughts to the SOB who bought it would you?

Dude, my entire department is faulty and flawed.....on sooo many different levels. However, I still try to help out folks in my community. I've already been given a faulty and flawed SCBA and YES, I used it. It was either use it or use nothing at all. Welcome to the real world. The guy who bought it was an SOB, but the guy who sold it is. Things are different when you're not stuck in scanner land.

None of this has anything to do with a 2-way radio system though does it?

 

[dbestfirefighter]

I give up to many know it alls.........and wanna be's

 

[2112]

Lol. Whatever.

Why is it that other threads I've participated in with you have gone like this? For example, look at this one from over a year ago:

http://www.radioreference.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12503&highlight=kfor+radar

Listen... if you are going to post here, you have to understand that there might be people that also post to these forums that know more about the things that you're posting than you do. Instead of stomping off in a huff and taking it personally each time someone provides such insight, why not take advantage of these *free* educational opportunities?

This attitude is right up there with those of posters to the state forums who believe that out-of-state posters shouldn't post in "their" state forum.

 

[CommShrek]

I give up to many know it alls.........and wanna be's

We can't all be "the best water squirter" but we can try.

 

[Chaos703]

Great. Now I'm going to be laying awake all night worrying about which catagory I fit into.

Are you sure those are my only two choices? Did you maybe leave out "simpleton scanner geek." Given the choice, I'd be most comfortable there.

 

[Chaos703]

.........................

 

[freqscout]

Aside from slander and other unrelated conversation...

I was wondering which city/state agency it is that is using Apco25 in the metro that is so left out by the EDACS system not being APCO25? Why couldn't EDACS just be the norm for the Oklahoma City area? There is currently nothing to challenge it or that even comes close to meeting the level of need that the EDACS system does. The system is fully capable of being integrated into any other system too. So who other than the scanner listener is left out by going with a less popular but still capable vendor?

I would even go so far as to say that I could understand the question of choosing EDACS when there is currently an APCO25 system in place that is covering areas in the same region such as in NO. The fact that remains is that there is no other digital system that is in place for public safety in the OKC area that is using APCO25 protocol.

I am not interested in starting the whole Motorola vs M/A-Com thing again because that is one overly abused and repeatedly kicked dead horse. I am more interested in who is so negatively affected by choosing EDACS over APCO?

 

[mam1081]

Here is some more fodder for the fire:

(Quoted from: http://www.gao.gov/htext/d041057t.html )

According to the Public Safety Wireless Network
(PSWN)[Footnote 6] program office, Project 25 standards remain the only
user-defined set of standards in the United States for public safety
communications. DHS purchased radios that incorporate the P-25
standards for each of the nation's 28 urban search and rescue teams.
PSWN believes P-25 is an important step toward achieving
interoperability, but the standards do not mandate interoperability
among all manufacturers' systems. Standards development continues today
as new technologies emerge that meet changing user needs and new policy
requirements.

/quote

There is another article on their website about obstacles to overcome for complete interoperability. Reference it at: http://www.gao.gov/new.items/d041057t.pdf


I don't look at the ProVoice as bad b/c I can't listen to it. I think of the defined "interoperability patches" as just that - patches (read: fixes). Until everyone is on one type of system (doesn't have to be from the same Manufacturer - the State of CO just authorized the 7100IP series radios for use on their P25 network, bringing the total number of authorized manufacturers up to 4 on that system).


So say everyone does go EDACS in OKC area. What happens when you want to talk to Tulsa (who is MOT II - analog - no digital interop yet). Or what happens when the network stretches all the way to the Northern border of OK - to KASIS - the new P25 newtork - or NW to Colorado's P25 network? Or Arkansas' new P25 network. If we're thinking of interoperability with different areas, I would think the smart thing to do would be to define the "area" or interest. The Metro? The State? The S Central US? The Continental US? All US? N.America???

And on it rolls....