Educate me... BC296D vs. BCD369T and my scanning needs

[pw1981]

I am looking for a handheld scanner. Things I know I need:

-APCO25
-Alphanumeric Display
-PC Programmable

Here is what I want to do:

I live in a county where everything is on one EDACS system. I want to be able to isolate out the Sheriff's Office and just listen to that. Usually, I will want to manually browse between the talkgroups rather than have it scan them because I know where to go to find the interesting stuff since I work there I want to then be able to flip over to F.D. or one of the other small agencies on our system.

Then, the county next door has a massive digital (Moto SmartZone II with 4 sites) system that I want to essentially do the same thing with. Liten only to the SO, or a particular PD and have the ability to manually select a talkgroup with as little effort as possible.

Will I have to program in the system controls multiple times and create a separate "system" for each agency?

I narrowed it down to Uniden simply because I have a BC780XLT that works very well and I am reasonably familiar with how Uniden scanners work (though, since I got issued a SO radio, I havn't turned it on a lot lately, but have decided to get back into it). Digital, however, is new to me and I want to make sure I get the right scanner for my needs.

I just found this site by accident and hope to learn a lot from it.

 

[whooey]

Get the 396T, Its new and better and smaller...

 

[scannerfreak]

Get the 396T, Its new and better and smaller...

And Best of all, the same price.. :wink:

 

[ka3jjz]

Gentlemen, you aren't educating him....

Let me take a stab at this. When trunking in the Uniden world, there are 2 rules to remember (and they are related);
a. You cannot have 2 different trunk systems in the same bank;
b. You cannot have 2 different systems - even if they're the same type - in the same bank

The reason is that the scanner cannot distinguish onto which control channel to lock while trunking.

Therefore, for the EDACS trunk, you would need to define that in its own bank. Not only would it need the control channel, it also needs to be defined in the correct LCN order.

For your Moto systems (assuming I understand this correctly), it gets a little complicated; if the talkgroup(s) you want to hear are broadcast across all 4 sites, then you would need to construct a scan list with that talkgroup in each of the 4 banks you would need to define. If however, only some of the sites carry those talkgroups, only those sites would need them in your scanlist. It appers (not knowing where you are) that you would need to define each site in its own bank.

Because of this, the 296's memory usage would be very inefficient, since you would lose the use of 1 bank for every system you define.

The 396 is a little different due to its memory structure; you are constrained to define each trunk you program as 1 'system' (in 396 speak)
however as far as I understand it you instruct the scanner as to exactly how many frequencies you need to define. Therefore no memory is wasted.

I don't know how this works with the 396, but if the 296 is anything like the other Unidens, once you are correctly trunking, you can press 'man' or 'hold', then use the up or down arrows (or use the VFO if those 2 scanners would support it) to select your desired talkgroup.

It's time to get friendly with your radio techs

73s Mike

 

[Voyager]

Gentlemen, you aren't educating him....

Let me take a stab at this. When trunking in the Uniden world, there are 2 rules to remember (and they are related);
a. You cannot have 2 different trunk systems in the same bank;
b. You cannot have 2 different systems - even if they're the same type - in the same bank

But in the case of the 396, there aren't any banks, so it's a moot point.

The reason is that the scanner cannot distinguish onto which control channel to lock while trunking.

Actually, the reason is because the Uniden evaluates only the first CC it comes across, and always the first only.

Comparing the 296 and 396:

For the same price, in the 396 you get:
1) Many more memory channels (up to 6000 with alpha tags now!)
2) Dynamic memory (no wasted memory)
3) Close Call
4) Fire Tone Out
5) Much smaller size
6) FREE programming SW
7) AA battery support

Seems like a no huge time brainer to me - GET THE 396 :!:

Joe M.

 

[ka3jjz]

Joe - while I don't dispute your points, there's one thing that should be considered. The 396 has undergone extensive beta testing, and to be sure, UPMan and his team should be commended for all the hard work.

However, new scanners - no matter how well tested - always have some bugs in them when they go to final production. It happens; in fact, UPMan said hmiself that there is another firmware change that will go in rather soon. The 296 - even with its inefficient memory usage - is a proven product. I wouldn't be in such a rush to get 'the new toy' in your hands just because it's new.

I too would recommend the 396 - but not immediately. I'd wait a month or two to let Uniden shake the bugs out (and find out what this new firmware patch will do) and then go for it.

73s Mike

 

[UPMan]

After over 4 months of testing by 10 alpha then 20 beta testers, I'm fairly confident that there are no showstoppers.

The firmware release will be a feature enhancement, not a a bug fix.

However, if something slips through, we'll do our best to fix it (we just released a bug fix for the 296D/796D, for example).

But you should decide based on your needs. Both manuals are available online.

 

[W4ELL]

Comparing the 296 and 396:

For the same price, in the 396 you get:
1) Many more memory channels (up to 6000 with alpha tags now!)
2) Dynamic memory (no wasted memory)
3) Close Call
4) Fire Tone Out
5) Much smaller size
6) FREE programming SW
7) AA battery support

Seems like a no huge time brainer to me - GET THE 396 :!:

Joe M.

I am with Joe on this one... no brainer.

Adding to what Joe said, look at the number of systems:

296: up to 10 individual trunked systems with conventional frequencies scattered within the remaining channels up to 1000. (Lots of wasted channels and limited organization for conventional frequencies, especially if you are monitoring 10 trunked systems.)

396: up to 400 individual trunked or conventional systems dynamically allocated within the 6000 channel limit. (No wasted memory. TGIDs and conventional frequencies can be much more organized.)

The 396 also allows 200 TGIDs per trunked system while the 296 allows only 100.

I could go on all day comparing specs but for the money, the 396 is the way to go.

I too would recommend the 396 - but not immediately. I'd wait a month or two to let Uniden shake the bugs out (and find out what this new firmware patch will do) and then go for it.

A few bugs just don't outweigh the superior specs of the 396 for me. I am willing to work through a few bugs.

He can either:

Wait a month or so without either scanner for the bugs to shake out of the 396

OR

Get the 296 and get a scanner that is relatively bug-free but very limited when compared with the 396.

OR

Grab the 396 when it ships and enjoy it... even if it has a few bugs, I don't expect them to be that big of a problem.

I just wouldn't consider the 296 at this point. I want the most bang for my buck. Even if the 296 comes down in price when the 396 ships, it wouldn't be worth it to me.

Besides... the 396 just looks cooler!

 

[Wes]

Is there still a 200 talkgroup limit per trunked system? I was just curious, since the memory specs have changed slightly.

Thanks!

 

[W4ELL]

I don't think that is a limitation of memory.

I think that is a limitation of how many TGIDs can be monitored on the control channel by the scanner's processor. If you had more than 200 TGIDs being monitored, you would miss alot of traffic because the scanner just couldn't keep up.

At least that is what I have read elsewhere.

 

[pw1981]

Thanks to everyone for thier input so far, I really appreciate it.

So here is my question regarding the scanners that, I think, remains unanswered.

If I want to separate the different agencies which share the same trunking system, would I have to list the same trunk multiple times?

I.e.... "EADCS System 1" handles the Sheriff and 3 small police departments. If I wanted to have the Sheriff separate from the local PD's, would I have to program in the same EADCS System for the sheriff then again for the smaller PD's?

So, here is a laziness question... when and where can I buy a 396?

 

[W4ELL]

If I want to separate the different agencies which share the same trunking system, would I have to list the same trunk multiple times?

I.e.... "EADCS System 1" handles the Sheriff and 3 small police departments. If I wanted to have the Sheriff separate from the local PD's, would I have to program in the same EADCS System for the sheriff then again for the smaller PD's?

If it were me, I would make one system and then put the different departments in seperate groups/lists. For instance:

On the 296:
Bank 1=EDACS
Scan List 1=Sheriff
Scan List 2= PD 1
Scan List 3= PD 2
Scan List 4= PD 3

Up to 10 TGIDs per list... up to 100 max per bank.

On the 396: <SQK=System Quick Key> <GQK=Group Quick Key>
(SQK1)=EDACS
(GQK1)=Sheriff
(GQK2)= PD 1
(GQK3)= PD 2
(GQK4)= PD 3

As many TGIDs as needed per group... up to 200 max per system.

So, here is a laziness question... when and where can I buy a 396?

Early to mid summer at your favorite scanner outlet. :wink: