EFJohnson intros VoIP-enabled P25 trunking system

[ShawnCowden]

is this bad for us scanner hobbiest ???



EFJohnson intros VoIP-enabled P25 trunking system

Jun 10, 2005 5:15 PM


EFJohnson introduced this week the IP25 Trunked Infrastructure System, an encrypted end-to-end digital Project 25-compliant system that uses voice-over-IP technology to integrate repeaters, a digital dispatch console, system management, a secure key management facility for over-the-air re-keying of radios in the field and a portable PDA-based key loader. The system supports AES and DES-OFB encryptions for secure FIPS-compliant communications, according to the company.

One advantage of the system is that it does not require a gateway or network switch to link digital consoles and repeaters, said Michael E. Jalbert, chairman and chief executive officer of EFJohnson parent EFJ, Inc., in a statement. “The advantages for first responders are quick deployments, fewer network elements to own and maintain, and scalability,” he said.

 

[n4voxgill]

when i copy something from another site, like MRT I always include a statement of where it comes from.

 

[ShawnCowden]

is this bad for us scanner hobbiest ???



EFJohnson intros VoIP-enabled P25 trunking system

Jun 10, 2005 5:15 PM VIA MRT MAG


EFJohnson introduced this week the IP25 Trunked Infrastructure System, an encrypted end-to-end digital Project 25-compliant system that uses voice-over-IP technology to integrate repeaters, a digital dispatch console, system management, a secure key management facility for over-the-air re-keying of radios in the field and a portable PDA-based key loader. The system supports AES and DES-OFB encryptions for secure FIPS-compliant communications, according to the company.

One advantage of the system is that it does not require a gateway or network switch to link digital consoles and repeaters, said Michael E. Jalbert, chairman and chief executive officer of EFJohnson parent EFJ, Inc., in a statement. “The advantages for first responders are quick deployments, fewer network elements to own and maintain, and scalability,” he said.

 

[ericcarlson]

It is P25-compliant, so it is monitorable, so long as the talkgroups are not encrypted. The VoIP refers to the network infrastructure for connecting all the trunked system components.

-Eric

 

[Voyager]

It is P25-compliant, so it is monitorable, so long as the talkgroups are not encrypted. The VoIP refers to the network infrastructure for connecting all the trunked system components.

-Eric

First, read the second bold word: encrypted (end to end)

Second, just because it's P25 doesn't mean it is monitorable. There are flavors of P25 that are not supported in scanners - encryption aside.

Joe M.

 

[blantonl]

What "flavors" of P25 are not supported by scanners?

 

[loumaag]

First, read the second bold word: encrypted (end to end)

No, read the first part that is not bolded: ...the IP25 Trunked Infrastructure System. Is everyone forgetting that IP protocols, unless encrypted, can be monitored? I see no comments, anywhere in the quote except for the reference to AES/DES and OTAR that changes anything about being able to monitor P25 radio transmissions.

I would also be interested to hear what P25 radio transmissions (other than incrypted) are not monitorable by current digital scanners. :?

 

[mmartinfan]

Yeah but it still EFJohnson radios.......... :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Ask IAFF Local 67 and the FOP Lodge 9 about those EFJohnson radios.

 

[INDY72]

Umm... interesting thought.. if this is a fully encrypted format.. it would be in leage with say.. ESK for EDACS PV systems yes???? If its truly fully encrypted from the ground up.. then its not monitorable.. Am I right???

 

[loumaag]

Umm... interesting thought.. if this is a fully encrypted format.. it would be in leage with say.. ESK for EDACS PV systems yes???? If its truly fully encrypted from the ground up.. then its not monitorable.. Am I right???

I will repeat, let us not confuse infrastructure (the network and the base stations and the consoles, etc., etc., etc.) with the actual small part we listen to, the repeater output.

Please go back and read my previous post, there is so much involved in a trunking system to get that signal to come out on a channel so we can hear it that we pay no attention to. Remember press releases are supposed to puff up the person/company doing the release and although it should not contain lies, neither should you try and read more into what is said then is actually stated.

 

[blantonl]

Lou, I hate to tell you, but the word that I have received is that this is indeed an end-to-end encrypted offering - infrastructure to subscriber unit.

 

[N_Jay]

Lou, I hate to tell you, but the word that I have received is that this is indeed an end-to-end encrypted offering - infrastructure to subscriber unit.

Yes it is.

Since it is P25 it will be P25 CAI over the air (with or without encryption) and will use IP (VoIP) to tie the infrastructure together. When encrypted, it will send the encrypted P25 packets over the IP link. (Hence end to end encryption).

Do I know this "For Sure"? No (I have not had a chance to discuss this system with EFJ)

Am I highly confident in my assumptions? YES (Because of what I do know of P25, VoIP, EFJ, and the standards process.)

 

[N_Jay]

It is P25-compliant, so it is monitorable, so long as the talkgroups are not encrypted. The VoIP refers to the network infrastructure for connecting all the trunked system components.

-Eric

First, read the second bold word: encrypted (end to end)

Second, just because it's P25 doesn't mean it is monitorable. There are flavors of P25 that are not supported in scanners - encryption aside.

Joe M.

I second that question.

What flavors of P25???

 

[ShawnCowden]

so yes monitorable no monitor or maybe

is this thing gonna take scanner hobbiest and digital scanners are gonna be history with this ???

 

[N_Jay]

so yes monitorable no monitor or maybe

is this thing gonna take scanner hobbiest and digital scanners are gonna be history with this ???

Lets see?

Yes, monitorable in P25 clear assuming you have a P25 scanner

No, Not monitorable when encrypted.

JUST LIKE EVERY OTHER P25 SYSTEM!

Hmmm, was that clear enough?

 

[ShawnCowden]

ok kewl ty for the info.

 

[Voyager]

What "flavors" of P25 are not supported by scanners?

As I understand it, the P25 spec only specifies certain parameters such as a 9600 control channel and such and such vocoder, but does not specify the actual format of the transmission. M/A-Com has been touting Open Sky as a P25 compliant solution for PA. I don't know if it meets the P25 specs or not, but it certainly is not scannable. (at least not with anything that is currently made)

I had a "P25 scanner" well before the local county went live, but found that it would not decode the P25 system without an upgrade since the county is using CQPSK modulation rather than C4FM. My scanner would only handle C4FM (albeit P25), and would not scan the CQPSK (ALSO P25) system. Those are two 'flavors' of P25 - BOTH LEGIT - but are not compatible and certainly not the same (as shown by the fact that one was scannable and the other was not - until it was added to the scanner).

Joe M.

 

[kikito]

FWIW, they said the same about our ALMR system here in Alaska. That it was going to be encrypted "all the way" and so on. Now we know that what they meant was: yes, the info and data throughout the infrastructure is in fact encrypted and if the users required and used AES encryption on their radios, that would virtually make it encrypted "all the way" or end to end.

We can all hope that's the case this time also, even though knowledgeable people here have responded already supporting it as a fact.

P.S. has anyone noticed in the past few years, how EFJohnson/Transcypt has been the biggest advocate so to speak for encryption and security? At times even citing directly "for blocking out eavesdroppers, etc. Makes you wonder if they just want to attract as much of the money being given away by Homeland Security... :wink:

 

[kikito]

BTW, here's some info and picture of their neat PDA key-loader. It uses Microsoft SQL CE among other things. It's just an HP iPaq h5100 series Pocket PC in a ruggedized case.

http://www.efjohnson.com/products/smakeyloader.asp

 

[John_M]

Kikito Wrote:

P.S. has anyone noticed in the past few years, how EFJohnson/Transcypt has been the biggest advocate so to speak for encryption and security? At times even citing directly "for blocking out eavesdroppers, etc. Makes you wonder if they just want to attract as much of the money being given away by Homeland Security... :wink:

Sure they want to get in on the game also. 9/11 and Homeland Security have alot to do with this encryption craze. The sooner we round up all these terrorists the better, and when they finally realize that the US
is not the country to be playing terrorist games with, then maybe the Homeland Security can cool down a bit. I could go off on a rant but I won't.