Eton Elite Executive True Single Sideband?
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majoco
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I don't quite understand what we're trying to prove here. If you are listening to an SSB station and have switched to the correct sideband, say USB, then there should be no transmission on the LSB sideband. If they are using ISB, independent sideband, where there are two different audio signals in the sidebands you need very good isolation in the receiver - often an ISB station has a reduced carrier which the receiver uses to regenerate the missing carrier so that it is exactly in phase with the received sidebands. It was used extensively by telecoms companies for HF communication worldwide before satellites made it so easy, now ISB is rarely heard.
These little radios don't have ISB, but it is still being used in a lot of LF/HF applications.
There are some that are wanting a good portable receiver with good SSB. I merely was showing this radio can do exactly as you described. In my video I show there is true separation between lsb and usb. 3819 at the time of recording was a perfect example. There were 2 different groups of hams operating at 3819 on both side bands. Pressing the button for upper or lower sideband one can hear either the conversation in upper sideband or the conversation in lower sideband. The radio rejected the opposing sideband with no evidence of any splatter from the opposite sideband.
Not ISB
I have radios that have only basic BFO's that could do the same with tuning the BFO knob either direction but it's easier on a radio with a LSB/USB switch.
More of a "yes this radio can do SSB quite well if you're looking for a good SSB radio" in which I should have made the topic reflect better than I had. People can also use this for an example of what other radios that do the same thing can do shopping for radios.
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ka3jjz
Wiki Admin Emeritus
Hmmm...something is off here. The standard on 75/80 has always been LSB, not USB. Not to say that it can't happen, but that's the standard
Mike
Mike
majoco
Stirrer
...and I find it hard to believe that a couple of hams would have a full-blown ISB transmitter in their shacks with two guys in different rooms talking on the separate sidebands. There would have to be another system at the receiver end to talk back to them and you couldn't have one end talking on LSB and the other end talking on USB. I suppose they could be two hams in different locations, one on USB and one on LSB on the same nominal suppressed carrier frequency but it would be very tricky to set up and most people can't talk and listen at the same time. ISB may still be in use but it's a one-way system only - any two way ISB system require the use of another frequency for the 'reply' side of the conversation.
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Listen on 3819 in the evenings around 6pm cdt give or take some minutes. One group is on lower the other group is in upper side band. One group isn't talking to the other group. It's possible. I am guessing both groups like to be on 3819 and maybe they decided that's the only way to keep 3819.
ka3jjz
Wiki Admin Emeritus
Propagation in OK won't be the same as it would be here in the DC area (totally different paths); however I have a sneaky suspicion that the net that is being heard on USB is really a couple of hundred hertz off 3819. Using a wide filter, it's quite possible the radio would mis-read that as an USB signal. Try using a narrower filter on that same signal (if one is available) and see if the USB signal is still present. If it's greatly reduced or gone, this is what is happening
This is not the fault of the radio; most consumer grade radios would be guilty of this too. A ham transceiver with good filters probably wouldn't hear the higher transmissions unless the radio is retuned.
Mike
This is not the fault of the radio; most consumer grade radios would be guilty of this too. A ham transceiver with good filters probably wouldn't hear the higher transmissions unless the radio is retuned.
Mike
It's not that. Not at all. Yes I tried all bandwidths off camera. You can have one group on lsb and a different group on usb without interfering with each other. I use either 2.5khz or 3khz bandwidth filters on ssb. Can't get you head wrapped around it? Try a websdr like NA5B or K3FEF where I verified it.
2.5 or 3 khz filters aren't narrow enough, since SSB are around 3 khz. You need some more narrow like 1.8 khz to be able to filter out one of the transmissions.
You can have two nets on one frequency one net on lsb the other on usb they won't interfere.
ka3jjz
Wiki Admin Emeritus
I tried a Kiwi SDR in Texas, and I'll be damned - 2 separate transmissions - one on LSB, the other on USB. I would have thought the ever present holier-than-thou band guardians would squawk, but there they are
Interesting find. Most consumer portables can't discriminate that well - particularly with only a 1 khz resolution...Mike
Interesting find. Most consumer portables can't discriminate that well - particularly with only a 1 khz resolution...Mike
the eton Elite Executive has 10hz resolution on the fine tuning
One thing I should note is that this radio doesn't employ a seperate clarifier or bfo knob.
How I know the resolution is 10hz is by sitting on any frequency with either ssb mode enabled and rotating the tuning knob in the fine tuning mode. It goes from 00 to 99. 100 total positions. 1khz = 10hz multiplied by 100 clicks. It won't roll over from 99 to 00.It's always either -00 to -99 or +00 to +99. It's a clarifier or BFO on the display. Similar to the CCrane Skywave SSB. It's somewhat a thing to get used to. I like the radio enough that it won't bother me.
I appreciate everyone's replies to this thread.
How I know the resolution is 10hz is by sitting on any frequency with either ssb mode enabled and rotating the tuning knob in the fine tuning mode. It goes from 00 to 99. 100 total positions. 1khz = 10hz multiplied by 100 clicks. It won't roll over from 99 to 00.It's always either -00 to -99 or +00 to +99. It's a clarifier or BFO on the display. Similar to the CCrane Skywave SSB. It's somewhat a thing to get used to. I like the radio enough that it won't bother me.
I appreciate everyone's replies to this thread.
The wide filter might capture part of a signal that far off, but it would sound like chipmunks if the radio is tuned to 3819.
That would have to be a poor quality filter. Good filtering only filters upper or lower side band. If it is widened it is set to go into the direction of the sideband mode used. The eton Elite Executive does exhibit proper USB/LSB filtering. It's amazing how they got it to work in a small package.
Depends on the bandwidth of the filter. The bit to which I was replying suggested the signal wasn't 3819.000 USB but something like 3819.200 USB. If using a 2kHz filter, that signal on 3819.200 would be well within the range of the filter. Indeed, you'd need a 200Hz filter to eliminate that signal entirely, which would be useless if listening to someone talk.
My point was that if tuned to 3819.000, a USB signal on 3819.200 would be readily identifiable as being off frequency. Sensitivity to off-frequency tuning varies from person to person, but you'd need to be deaf to not notice a 200Hz shift.
but he found out i was right when he checked 3819 with a KiwiSDR. See post 13
It has been my experience that a lot of less experienced radio listeners don't really understand how SSB works. Even some with extensive experience DXing MW have significant gaps in their knowledge in regards to SSB. This became clear a number of years ago when a group I was in tried to determine the origin of a mystery carrier that suddenly appeared. Significant mistakes were made in determining the direction of the signal due to not understanding how to apply LSB/USB to the situation. I think similar gaps in knowledge have manifested themselves at points in this thread.
I never doubted that you were getting separate transmissions on USB and LSB. Other than convention, there's no reason that can't happen, as you proved. I was just trying to point out the problem in one particular statement that seemed to be suggesting you were actually hearing a transmission on a higher frequency. Aside from the confirmation from another party, there are logical issues with the contention. If it was a USB transmission on the higher frequency it would sound like chipmunks. If it was a LSB transmission all the frequencies would essentially be inverted and it would be totally unintelligible. The very nature of SSB makes it such that if you aren't very, very close to the actual transmission frequency the received signal will sound wrong, and if you're using the wrong sideband the transmission will be totally unintelligible.
With SSB the only way you're going to get a right-sounding transmission when not on right on the frequency is if you're getting an image generated within the radio.
I never doubted that you were getting separate transmissions on USB and LSB. Other than convention, there's no reason that can't happen, as you proved. I was just trying to point out the problem in one particular statement that seemed to be suggesting you were actually hearing a transmission on a higher frequency. Aside from the confirmation from another party, there are logical issues with the contention. If it was a USB transmission on the higher frequency it would sound like chipmunks. If it was a LSB transmission all the frequencies would essentially be inverted and it would be totally unintelligible. The very nature of SSB makes it such that if you aren't very, very close to the actual transmission frequency the received signal will sound wrong, and if you're using the wrong sideband the transmission will be totally unintelligible.
With SSB the only way you're going to get a right-sounding transmission when not on right on the frequency is if you're getting an image generated within the radio.
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