em,ergency communications, and just wanting to know what's out there

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Mastrax

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Ok, I'm new to all of this... so let's get this out of the way :)

I have a camp in a remote area of New Brunswick where I fish, ATV, hike, etc. My understanding is there is a TMR system (used by the rangers, and other emergency agencies) with a few towers in the area - operating at about 173-4'ish frequency range. I'm not sure of the trunking type though. There maybe other CB, and private/amateur systems around that I'm not aware of.

I'd like to know everything that is out there, and then in cases of emergencies... be able to communicate through whatever repeaters, and or direct sources are available. I plan on getting my license soon.

Should I get a scanner, like the PRS-500 to get to know what's out there? Or should I just go to a Vx-8r? What scanning abilities will the Vx8r have? Anyone have suggestion on another approach?
 

hfxChris

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Welcome to the board!

Where abouts in NB is your camp?
First resource I'll point you to is the database here on Radio Reference, New Brunswick Scanner Frequencies and Radio Frequency Reference
You can lookup by county, or agency for things like Ambulance NB, Natural Resources or RCMP.
According to the database, the only tunking systems in NB are one in Saint John, and the Nova Scotia system which also operates in Fredericton. I know there's other systems, but there is no province-wide trunked system.
Also check out this site, which is specific to the maritimes: The Maritimes Scanning Site - lots of great NB information there.

As far as what you'll need for a scanner, I can tell you that right now as it is, a PSR-500 is overkill. There isn't much as far as public safety is concerned that is trunked, or digital - however, that could change. I know the province of NB was thinking about implimenting a province-wide trunking system similar to Nova Scotia's system, in fact there were even thoughts about NS and NB joining forces and creating one even bigger system between the two....so who knows. The PSR-500 would definitely be future-proofed. Maybe somebody else from NB can help me out here.
 

Mastrax

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Thanks for the replay

Thanks for the link... after digging around, it would seem that McKendrick Lake is the closest repeater. It's part of a network for Department of Natural Resources. I'm about 13 km's (as the crow flies) from McKendrick lake.

Department of Natural Resources

Looks like 173.460Mhz.

Now, does this mean I can just get a 2 meter system and communicate on this network? Or should I be hunting around for other sources? I realize that to someone with experience, my questions might seem pretty trivial (or even misguided) - again, I'm just new and beginning to research as much as I can.

As well... Will most of the 2 meter handhelds that are available (such as vx-7, 8, etc) provide useful scanning... or do I need to get a dedicated scanner? Finally, what range should I expect out of these 5/7 watt handhelds? Should I/need I go with a vehicle mounted 50 watt system? (again, be patient :) )
 

robertmac

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Check before tranmitting

First, unless you have written permission to transmit on “their” frequency, you are not authorized to transmit. Listening is OK. You didn’t qualify what “license” you are going to get. I assume you mean Amateur Radio. However, to transmit on frequencies outside of amateur frequencies, you still need to buy a license from Industry Canada and they will assign you a frequency to talk on. If you first would go out and attend ham courses [if offered in your area], or did online studies, your questions would probably be answered for you. The VX-8 has quad band transmit. But just on Amateur Radio frequencies. It is not capable, legally, of transmitting out of the amateur bands. If you want to know the fines for transmitting out ofband, check with your local branch of Industry Canada. Recently, truckers using amateur radios for transmitting out of ham bands had their radios seized and face fines up to $10,000. So now that we have settled the transmit question, the VX-8 is good for listening to Non Trunked, non digital radio systems. And it doesn’t receive cell frequencies. Thus, unless you are not interested in amateur radio, you might be better off with a decent scanner. Numerous articles on this can be found in various postings. Also, eHam.net Home - Amateur Radio (Ham Radio) Community Site is a good source for reviews on various amateur radios and non amateur radios. Range: depends. Are you talking transmitting or receiving? As I stated earlier, transmitting out of the amateur radio bands, on radios not designed for this, can fry your finals very quickly [and is not authorized]. Range: depends-on power [yes 50 watts will increase range over 5 watts], type of antenna used, type of power supply used, topographical area one is transmitting in, type of coax used, type of grounding used, type of weather in the area, type of radio, type of coax grease used, etc.. Working to obtain an amateur radio will help with answering most of your questions. Just remember, amateur radios are not designed to be used outside of amateur bands. There is a reason that amateur radios are cheaper than land mobile radios. And that generally is because they are not built to the same standards that land mobile radios are. What does this mean? That transmitting out of band you may not be transmitting on the frequency you think you are or the display indicates. What does this mean? You cold be interferring with Public Service users. And I wouldn’t want to be responsible for interfering with police, fire, EMS, Park Wardens, Coast Guard, Fish and Wildlife officers, peace officers, etc.. Better to be safe than sorry.
 

Mastrax

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robertmac

Thanks for the "warm" response Robertmac :). Again, I'm just starting. I just received the "RAC study guide for the basic exam", but even with this knowledge it would not answer my questions as to what's "out there" locally. So, a challenge back to you - as you can see in my original post I was looking for emergency communications options - if someone is going to die, I'll deal with a fine. Do you have any suggestions as to what is the best emergency transmit options and/or what where I should find the most chatter and range on a public band?
 

bpsmicro

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The RAC study guide is a first step towards getting your ham license. This will give you authorization to transmit on ham frequencies only, never on private or commercial frequencies. And for the most part, you'll have an extremely hard time finding radios suitable for whatever commercial entities are in the area you're looking at, and almost zero chance of one radio doing multiple systems. And even then, that's a really bad idea because not only is it illegal, the chances of successfully using such a system are pretty low.
Still, a ham license may be very useful because you may well find wherever you are is within range of a ham repeater or you can do some long-range simplex. The only concern with ham is that if you don't have pre-arranged people to talk/listen to, it's possible a distress call may not be heard. It'll also teach you more about how radio works, so you'll be in a better position to understand capabilities & limitations.
The current "best" option for wilderness communications is a satellite phone. You can rent them from a variety of places for specific trips, or you can lease/buy them and pay a service fee similar to how a cell phone works (but much more expensive). The nice thing about those is they're very reliable, and it's just a phone so you can call anybody.
Another popular option is the "SPOT" devices. I don't know a heck of a lot about the details, but one explanation is they're a combination GPS and simple "status" transmitter. They're popular with wilderness trippers because you can press an "OK" button at various points in the day, and folks back home can get a text message complete with GPS coordinates. Press the "HELP" button and a similar message goes out. I believe you can pay an extra fee so that "HELP" messages also go to a central monitoring station that'll interface with the appropriate rescue authorities.

Hope this helps;
Brad.
 

Mastrax

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I decided to go with... sat phone, cell repeater, and scanner

Thanks for the input folks.

Here is what I landed on (yes, I move quickly....lol).

I picked up a Sat phone on Ebay. FYI…currently the Globalstar phones are going pretty cheap... seems they are getting alot of bad pr due as a result of their degrading amp problem... service is degraded, but still seems reasonable, but I'll know more after testing.

I picked up a repeater system for 800Mhz cel... I think I can grab enough signal at my camp to allow for a reasonable level of service.

Finally - HAM still intrigues me... so I'm still going to pursue my HAM license. In the mean time ... I'm going with a scanner (just picked up a PSR500 from Durham radio – yes, I realize it's overkill... but I will find more uses for it than just what's around the camp, and I like the future proofing. BTW, very good price for Canada… almost on par with US pricing). That will allow me to get a good idea of what chatter maybe going on around this remote area... amateur repeaters, loggers, emergency, dept of natural resources, etc.

I’m glad I found this forum though, seems like there is a pretty good archive of information to look through.
 
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vabiro

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I picked up a Sat phone on Ebay. FYI…currently the Globalstar phones are going pretty cheap... seems they are getting alot of bad pr due as a result of their degrading amp problem... service is degraded, but still seems reasonable, but I'll know more after testing.

I have been curious about the Globalstar phones. Apparently they have a new "all you can eat" plan for $20 that would be awesome for some of the places I go, However I wasn't aware of the "degrading amp" problem you mention. Do you have a URL for some more info?


I picked up a repeater system for 800Mhz cel... I think I can grab enough signal at my camp to allow for a reasonable level of service.

Careful with this. Although the carriers have traditionally used their 850MHz block of spectrum for rural sites, they have been realigning their use of 850MHz, moving away from AMPS (analogue cellular) and turning down the 850 in favour of 1900, until they can re-assign GSM or CDMA. As a result, a site may have 1900 digital coverage only until they can reassign resources for digital 850MHz.

You may be fine, but to be safe, I would have a dual-band amplifier.

Finally - HAM still intrigues me... so I'm still going to pursue my HAM license. In the mean time ... I'm going with a scanner (just picked up a PSR500 from Durham radio – yes, I realize it's overkill... but I will find more uses for it than just what's around the camp, and I like the future proofing. BTW, very good price for Canada… almost on par with US pricing). That will allow me to get a good idea of what chatter maybe going on around this remote area... amateur repeaters, loggers, emergency, dept of natural resources, etc.

I’m glad I found this forum though, seems like there is a pretty good archive of information to look through.

Congradulations! This really is a great hobby, both Amateur and scanning. If you're interested in computers, the PSR500 will give you some functionality that will add an additional layer of interesting things to do. You may not need the digital radio functions, but the computer control can be fun.

BTW, did you investigate the Globalstar SPOT, It looks like a good compromise for infrequent emergency communications, when a full sat phone is overkill.

Cheers
Victor
 

Mastrax

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PCS deployment

Thanks....

PCS has very limited deployment in Atlantic Canada... so 800 Mhz is really not a concern for me in the short term. AMPS/Analog has been shutdown since last November... my understanding is that digital is run over 800Mhz. The thing that may bite me in the $ss is that no matter how strong a signal I amp up to, for distances above some threshold in the 30-50 km's range will introduce prorogation delay that can result in unrecoverable errors... geesh, digital.

ALso... here's what's going on with globalstar...

"According to documents filed with the SEC on January 30, 2007, Globalstar's previously identified problems with its S-band amplifiers used on its satellites for two-way communications are occurring at a rate faster than expected, possibly eventually leading to reduced levels of two-way voice and duplex data service in 2008."

There even have a web application that will identify when the best times to get a signal will be for your given coordinates. (http://www.globalstar.ca/en/optimum_tool/)

I got a sat phone for $65 bucks, so it's even cheaper than spot :).
 
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mikewazowski

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Careful with this. Although the carriers have traditionally used their 850MHz block of spectrum for rural sites, they have been realigning their use of 850MHz, moving away from AMPS (analogue cellular) and turning down the 850 in favour of 1900, until they can re-assign GSM or CDMA. As a result, a site may have 1900 digital coverage only until they can reassign resources for digital 850MHz.

You must be talking Bell Mobility and/or Telus Mobility?

Rogers Wireless has been running GSM850 since 2002 with no problems. It happily coexisted beside the old IS-136 system until that was shutdown in May 2007.

These days, GSM850 and UMTS are now happily coexisting side by side in the 850Mhz band.

So, depending on his carrier, he might not have any problems at all and the single band amplifier will work fine.

I've actually got a Spotwave unit ready to go in but unfortunately, it only works on 1900Mhz and all the sites around me are 850Mhz.
 

warrior420

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I'm going with a scanner (just picked up a PSR500 from Durham radio QUOTE]



Did you just place an online order? because i called yesterday and they didnt have any PSR-500's in stock. Lectron radio is the exclusive supplier of Canada and they will be out until early April, As will Durham Radio im assuming. They did have 4 PSR-600's but i ordered one of them. If you dont feel like waiting im sure you could call and switch to a 600.
 

Mastrax

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psr500 - stocking at Durham Radio

Thanks for the heads up W... I had placed the order with Durham online this AM. After reading your message, I gave them a call. The said they will be getting these in either this Friday, or next at THE latest.

I need/want the portability of a handheld, so I guess I'll wait.
 

robertmac

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Well you came to the right conclusion. Using something that is a "sick bird" shouldn't be encouraged so glad to here you will not be transmitting on frequencies that one shouldn't. For me, Sat. phones are much too expensive. At least in Alberta, cell phones generally have coverage for all the areas I got to. Thus, in an emerg. I would use the cell phone. Besides, cell phones are starting to use GPS so easy to find where I am. Until then, I will use a GPS and give the location when calling in emergencies.
 

Mastrax

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Thanks for feedback everyone... and more of globalstar

Folks,

Thanks for everyone's feedback & help. I've signed up to write my beginners test next week. Last night I read through the RAC study guide for beginners, and I was surprised how much I already knew - I took an Electronics Engineering Technology diploma in community college (computer stream) - I've since moved on to software and systems development, and now most recently business (just got my MBA)... so, studying the RAC guide kind-of reminded me of the fun stuff about tech that I used to enjoy so much. Anyone starting from scratch though - would probably have a difficult time with some of this stuff.

Robertmac.... In the remote area of my camp, handheld cel is not an option. I'll let you know how my Globalstar experiment goes... but, if I'm reading this right... it might be much less expensive than people think (Voice Pricing :: Airtime Pricing :: Globalstar)... and (like I mentioned earlier) you can pick up used globalstar phones relatively cheap. But as I also posted, the service degradation problem might be an issue. I assume this current inexpensive package is an attempt to keep customers during this rough patch. With any luck, they'll get their new satellites up this year, and then "gandfather" (keep it going) this plan. If they do, this should result in a huge influx of sat users, and equipment vendor interest.
 
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Mastrax

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...ok test

I'm learning my niavety as I go along :)

Just going through sample tests, and it's mostly regs and procedures. Too bad it wasn't more about the technical stuff... oh well, now I have just have to it the books. The test examiner tool/software from IC is nice to have. Any other "sage" advice would be much appreciated :)
 
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