Emergency Landing At JFK

[acepilot340]

An American Airlines pilot at JFK doesn't get the runway he wants so he declares an EMERGENCY landing in order to get the runway he wants.

YouTube - American 2 Declares Emergency to Land 31R - JFK - 05/04/10

 

[FFEMTCURRENCE]

u got to be kidding me....i hope the pilot gets looked into....some rules had to be broken....

 

[FFEMTCURRENCE]

+ he sounded like an a**

 

[awasser1]

i sent the clip to fox news. maybe someone will investigate?

 

[acepilot340]

The pilot in command has the final say on whether it is safe to land. This pilot saw a danger in the crosswind exceeding the crosswind component of the aircraft in order to make a safe landing on the initial runway.

What this pilot did was perfectly legal and safe because he saw it was too dangerous to land on the directed runway. The outcome was better than a fiery crash to save time.

Don't always assume the pilot is wrong he has lives in his hands and if he feels it is not safe to land on a given runway he will not land on a given runway.

 

[rmosier]

Acepilot340 is dead wrong. Air traffic control determines where and in what order each flight will land. If you listen to the conversation, A22 was instructed to break off and maintain current heading by air traffic control, and to await the instructed turn for a second approach. The instructed heading was 180. This order was disregarded, and as a result ATC was forced to move all other traffic in the area. (A great job done by the controller!). The details regarding the declared "emergency" should defiantly be investigated by the FAA, IF the incident was reported. "Ace"...before you respond, please reference the appropriate reading materials.

 

[Kennrth]

JFK Runway Closure: 4 Months of Rattled Nerves, Wallets
AP
NEW YORK March 01, 2010
The main runway at New York's John F. Kennedy International closed Monday for four months, causing delays for millions of travelers including some not flying anywhere near the Big Apple.
JFK's Bay Runway, at 14,572 feet, is one of the longest commercial runways in the world. It's a backup landing spot for the space shuttle, which has its next mission in April. The runway is being repaved with concrete instead of less-durable asphalt and widened to accommodate today's bigger planes.
The Pilots seemed distressed by the loss of the ILS Localizer on final approach Runway 22L , The tower declared that they reset it and it would come up in a little while. A little while is very non specific. These large aircraft use onboard flight computer s as well as visuals for ILS approach but for some reason he lost confidence in his ILS. Could be visuals and other instruments not agreeing with ILS and ground localizer not working for lack of verification. Runway 22R is closed, not an emergency option. The pilot aborted approach on 22L preprogrammed in his flight computer. . Plus the tower reported gusts to 35Knots. The pilot requested a quick turn for runway 31R and requested a declaration of emergency to the tower if need be.. The Tower denied the request and tried to turn him around. so the Pilot overtly declared an emergency. The Pilot sounded not only stressed but angry then desperate to get the Aircraft down ASAP. The Pilot mis spoke, He should declared the emergency period. It sounds like he did not get what he wanted and like a spoiled brat declared an emergency to get runway 31R. But I seriously doubt it. I think he distrusted the ILS system onboard. He is not talking to ATC but to Tower Approach. Pilots do not abort approaches as a whim. To break away he now loses his place in the approach formation and will be turned away by the tower and handed off to Approach ATC. The Pilot stipulated he wanted to land ASAP on runway 31R. What the pilot did is a scary maneuver and DANGEROUS to land on just visuals. He broke off the approach on runway 22L and proceeded to 31R requsting safe clearance under emergency condition. He did not say what the emergency was and does not need to do so. He told the tower to clear traffic HE IS MAKING AN EMERGENCY LANDING NOW and proceeded to turn. Tower complied and directed the flight to runway 31R and the pilot complied with the towers directions but had to force the issue. . In my opinion the pilot was too diplomatic in his initial demeanor . Sometimes it does not pay to be a gentlemen. Did you remember the crash on the north shore where the pilot ran out of gas. ATC and tower ignored his request. He should have ignored them and declared an emergency but he didn’t.
If you declare an emergency you better be ready to justify it . Maybe too much so that a Pilot may refrain from doing so cause he doesn’t want to go to endless meeting and interviews and second guessing. Kudos to the Pilot. Everyone onboard is safe and sound and that’s what counts. If this was some kind of emotional outburst that’s the end of his carrier.

 

[JoeyC]

Arrogant pilot with no respect for the controller or other aircraft initially accepts clearance to land on 22 but with localizer problem compounded by gusty crosswinds states he will declare an emergency to get his runway of choice. Thats all well and good under the circumstances, and as the controller stated was a requirement to get that runway. OK, so why was he being an assH as the controller tried to accomodate the special need? His fabricated emergency prevented him flying the runway heading or making a turn to 180 for orderly sequencing? Sounded like the controller was making decisions so as to impact as few aircraft as possible while preparing him for an orderly approach to 31R while the pilot wanted no part in it. The sound of his voice says it all.

 

[jaymatt1978]

Bottom line the pilot needs to be suspended and investigated. It's like someone walking into a diner seeing flames in the kitchen and calling the fire department when the cooks have everything under control. The pilot threated the air traffic controler with declaring an emergency if he didn't get what he wanted. It's that simple. No other pilots had troble with the cross-winds, that was a lame excuse

 

[rdale]

It's like someone walking into a diner seeing flames in the kitchen and calling the fire department when the cooks have everything under control.

Ehh, I don't think that's a valid comparison. If I see a kitchen on fire, even if the cooks do tell me "we have in under control" they have no idea if it's in the vents, the walls, the ceiling area, etc. They'd be stupid not to call the FD to check it out.

 

[scottb908]

ABC report

Runway closure at JFK Airport blamed for creating dangerous landing situations | 7online.com

 

[Kennrth]

Like I said it is a bad idea to suspend a pilot for declaring an emergency. As of yet it is not known what the emergency was. You do not want to create a policy which deters pilots from declaring an emegency. Error should be on the side of safety. The facts have not been revealed. A snap decision without the facts is no more than phychological lynching. Hopefully we will hear more about this. If this guy was inept I wouldn't want to be on his flight. But on the other hand he may have avioded a disaster.

 

[Kennrth]

Web produced by Jennifer Matarese
QUEENS (WABC) -- The pilot of an American Airlines plane and an air traffic controller had a disagreement that forced the pilot to make an emergency landing at JFK Airport.

"American 2 heavy, 22L. You're clear to land," the air traffic controller at the JFK tower said.

When the pilots of the passenger-filled 767 American Airlines plane got their landing instructions from the Kennedy Tower, they realized they'd be touching down into a 35-mile per hour cross wind.

"We can't land on 22," the pilot responded. "We're breaking off approach and if you don't give us to runway 31 right, we're going to declare an emergency."


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"The winds again increased, exceeded the characteristics of the plane, and he was forced to have another option," said Steve Abraham, of the JFK Controller union. "He had no choice. He couldn't land 22L, it would have been illegal for him."

It would also be dangerous, agreed Abraham.

Landing into a cross wind is much more complicated, but since the closing eight weeks ago of JFK's main runway, air traffic controllers say they've been pressured by the FAA to land planes into tricky cross winds.

There is a safer option, but it would require the use of one runway for all flights in and out of the airport, which would create nightmarish delays.

"It's an issue of capacity versus safety," Abraham said. "If we are on a single runway configuration, landing on runway 31R, which was the runway most in line with the wind, we have major capacity issues, we will run extensive delays."

On Tuesday evening, American Flight 2 out of Los Angeles felt the balance between major delays and safety had been pushed to far.

"You're saying you're declaring an emergency?" the controller asked.

"Three times I told you that, three times, we're declaring and emergency," the pilot responded.

Now, low on fuel, the pilot made it clear he would not land into strong crosswinds.

"American 2 heavy, we are turning around to the left here and landing 31," the pilot said. "Remove everyone from our way, we've declared an emergency, we're on visual."

"American 2 heavy, 31 right clear to land, wind gusting at 24," the JFK tower controller said.

The controller said Tuesday's emergency landing is a warning that with the main runway under construction, safety should not be compromised just to avoid delays.

"I can explain to somebody why they're late," Abraham said. "I can't explain when they don't get there."

If you have a tip about this or any other issue you'd like investigated, please give our tipline a call at 877-TIP-NEWS. You may also e-mail us at the.investigators@abc.com and follow Jim Hoffer on Twitter at twitter.com/nycinvestigates

(Copyright ©2010 WABC-TV/DT. All Rights Reserved.)

 

[autovon]

I didn't know we had so many airline pilots on the forum. That's really neat! What kinds of planes do you all fly?

 

[JoeyC]

I didn't know we had so many airline pilots on the forum. That's really neat! What kinds of planes do you all fly?

One doesn't need to be a pilot to listen and/or comment about the situation. :roll:

 

[Gezelle007]

Wow, it seems JFK has had its moments, children in the tower, runway closures, and now this. Lifes tough.

 

[FFEMTCURRENCE]

well then say fuel emergency or something....not just move the planes out of the way blah blah blah..can you declare an emergency w/o stating the problem...where did the plane come from why didnt have enough fuel....i know theres a rule on the fuel and if its that low then why not divert and not wait to the last second isnt that a play on safety to?

 

[Dewey]

Not commenting on either side of the emergency, but fuel could have become a concern. Take a look at AAL 2's flight path on FlightAware for May 4th, and zoom in at the JFK portions. Looks like he was put into a hold where he made 2 & 1/2 big circles west of JFK... far larger than the circle he made the day before.

 

[SteveEJ]

The pilot in command has the final say on whether it is safe to land. This pilot saw a danger in the crosswind exceeding the crosswind component of the aircraft in order to make a safe landing on the initial runway.

What this pilot did was perfectly legal and safe because he saw it was too dangerous to land on the directed runway. The outcome was better than a fiery crash to save time.

Don't always assume the pilot is wrong he has lives in his hands and if he feels it is not safe to land on a given runway he will not land on a given runway.

You are correct in the fact that the PIC has the final authority BUT he does NOT have the right to disobey ATC instructions without an explanation. Failure to comply with ATC instructions just because you are exceeding cross wind components is not good or valid! Now if he was to declare emergency fuel, which he did not do (actually he never stated the nature of the emergency) the I could go along with it. Based on the stress the controller obviously was working under, a simple compliance with the controllers coordinated instructions and allowing them to sequence AAL2 to the requested/required runway would have been the proper thing to do. Some pilots think they are the only airplanes in the sky! They can themselves cause havoc to an already stressed system in the North East Corridor. He wanted his way and got it, for now. An investigation will take place whether it was sent to Fox News or not! All declared emergencies are investigated. The pilot/incident will be sent to Flight Standards for this one and I'm sure there will be some required answers from American Airlines.

 

[abqscan]

I didn't know we had so many airline pilots on the forum. That's really neat! What kinds of planes do you all fly?

I was thinking the same thing! So many judgements without knowing all the facts...