Employee Told To Remove US Flag Pin

Status
Not open for further replies.

bravo14

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Feb 18, 2005
Messages
3,458
Location
#850Strong
I lived in St Augustine over 20 years when I moved here it was a courthouse at the time. Before the Courthouse use to be Henry Flagler hotel than courthouse now Casa Monica.

ST. AUGUSTINE, Fla. -- Sean May has been wearing an American flag pin to work every day for the last two years.

"In this day, I kind of feel like it has a little bit more of a powerful meaning than just a pin on somebody's jacket, and I wear it with pride because I like where I live and I love this country," May said.

The 26-year-old front desk supervisor at Casa Monica Hotel in the heart of downtown St. Augustine was told to take the pin off Thursday because it violates company policy.

"I've actually gotten probably more compliments about it than any of the service I've actually done at the hotel, which is an interesting concept," May said. "And I told her, I said, 'I don't feel I need to take this off,' and she told me, 'Well, you've got a choice. You can go home or you can remove the pin.' And I said, 'Well, I'm not going to remove the pin, so I guess I'm going home.'"

more of the story click link below

Employee Told To Remove US Flag Pin - Jacksonville News Story - WJXT Jacksonville
 

gewecke

Completely Banned for the Greater Good
Banned
Joined
Jan 29, 2006
Messages
7,440
Location
Illinois
This guy will win in the end, but his boneheaded employer may not see the light.


73,
n9zas
 

kg4icg

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Nov 28, 2003
Messages
318
Location
Woodbridge, Va
Where I work at in which we are company started in the U.S. but are world wide. No problem wearing the flag pin of the country you live in.
 

gewecke

Completely Banned for the Greater Good
Banned
Joined
Jan 29, 2006
Messages
7,440
Location
Illinois
Where I work at in which we are company started in the U.S. but are world wide. No problem wearing the flag pin of the country you live in.
Same here,as many of us are U.S. Veterans anyhoo! :)
Our company wouldn't think of telling us we couldn't fly our colors!!
I hope this soldier finds a judge who feels as we do.

73,
n9zas
 

scannerfreak

Moderator
Database Admin
Joined
Jul 3, 2003
Messages
5,185
Location
Indiana
He should sue them FOR EVERY DIME!!!!!
For what? He violated a very clear established company policy. They chose to enforce it, he refused, and was fired. Whether one thinks it's wrong because of what the pin represented is meaningless. The company has the right to establish policies and enforce them as they see fit.
 

pro92b

Member
Joined
Jun 27, 2002
Messages
1,684
Same here,as many of us are U.S. Veterans anyhoo! :)
Our company wouldn't think of telling us we couldn't fly our colors!!
I hope this soldier finds a judge who feels as we do.

73,
n9zas
Where does it say he was a soldier?

Jobs are not that easy to find these days and I guess he just created an opening for someone who can abide by company rules...
 

Dude111

Member
Joined
Aug 8, 2009
Messages
434
scannerfreak said:
For what? He violated a very clear established company policy......
Ya i guess its a VERY FINE LINE bud....

But wearing a PIN of the FLAG causes this??

ITS OVER THE LINE.......
 

tampabaynews

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Jan 26, 2007
Messages
1,202
Location
Tampa, FL
Gotta love bureaucrats. I would never want to work for an employer like that. He'll be better off finding work elsewhere, best of luck to him.
 
Last edited:

JoeyC

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 19, 2002
Messages
3,403
Location
San Diego, CA
Ya i guess its a VERY FINE LINE bud....

But wearing a PIN of the FLAG causes this??

ITS OVER THE LINE.......
Sounded like a clear and fair policy to me. Once you allow people to express themselves through pins, signs etc you have to be fair across the board to everyone. Allow one guy the American flag, then you have to allow the Mexican flag, Iraqi flag, Islamic flags, any countries flag or you are guilty of discrimination. And then that leads to breast cancer awareness pins, gay and lesbian flag pins, you name it. The employer should be able to control the image of the company by a dress code and that sounds exactly like what they did.
 

KE4RWS

Member
Joined
Oct 30, 2004
Messages
291
Location
South Florida
Sounded like a clear and fair policy to me. Once you allow people to express themselves through pins, signs etc you have to be fair across the board to everyone. Allow one guy the American flag, then you have to allow the Mexican flag, Iraqi flag, Islamic flags, any countries flag or you are guilty of discrimination. And then that leads to breast cancer awareness pins, gay and lesbian flag pins, you name it. The employer should be able to control the image of the company by a dress code and that sounds exactly like what they did.
County Commissioner Mark Miner stated he has "concern" over the hotels inability to discern between the flag of our nation and other pins and buttons. That is the real issue here.

Comparing someone who wears our nations flag [pin] to that of someone wearing a gay, lesbian, or other country's flag is clearly not within the same realm of what this issue is really about. That much should be clear to people.

The negative reputation this hotel received as a direct result of their bonehead decision to have this young man remove a US flag pin from his lapel he had already been wearing for the prior TWO YEARS was well earned. And the genius who told him to remove it was likely someone who clearly has not made the connection of WHY he wore it to begin with.

Oddly, it seemed to be okay for this man to wear the pin for TWO FULL YEARS prior to this incident. But suddenly it absolutely HAD to be removed right then and there or *else*.
 

Citywide173

Member
Joined
Feb 18, 2005
Messages
1,702
Location
Attleboro, MA
He probably won't be able to sue them, as the company owns him when he is on their time. The quote: "However, our employee handbook clearly states, 'No other buttons, badges, pins or insignias of any kind are permitted to be worn.', indicates to me that there are some exceptions, or the word "other" wouldn't be used. How hard is it for the company to add "American Flag pin" to the list of authorized items, as opposed to taking the bad press of firing an employee over it.

I know I'll never be staying there.
 

Fast1eddie

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Mar 4, 2004
Messages
549
Location
Crafton Pennsylvania
I do not agree with this company policy-I am a vet-but the basic issue here is the employee violated policy and was offered a opportunity to comply. Bottom line is unless this employee has union protection, employment is at will, which means the company can do whatever they want with extremely little chance of losing. Guess the question to ask is being long term unemployed worth going against the grain???? Principles are fine, but adherence to those values do not pay the rent.

Should have sucked it up and dealt with it. I wish him well, I have been there and done that. I hear the White House will be open in a year, understand the pay and bennies are not bad.
 

JoeyC

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 19, 2002
Messages
3,403
Location
San Diego, CA
County Commissioner Mark Miner stated he has "concern" over the hotels inability to discern between the flag of our nation and other pins and buttons. That is the real issue here.

Comparing someone who wears our nations flag [pin] to that of someone wearing a gay, lesbian, or other country's flag is clearly not within the same realm of what this issue is really about. That much should be clear to people.

The negative reputation this hotel received as a direct result of their bonehead decision to have this young man remove a US flag pin from his lapel he had already been wearing for the prior TWO YEARS was well earned. And the genius who told him to remove it was likely someone who clearly has not made the connection of WHY he wore it to begin with.

Oddly, it seemed to be okay for this man to wear the pin for TWO FULL YEARS prior to this incident. But suddenly it absolutely HAD to be removed right then and there or *else*.
The policy stated "no other buttons, badges, pins or insignias of any kind are permitted to be worn" There didn't seem to be an exception for a flag pin in that statement so the need to discern pin or flag types is irrelevant. I would guess the only pin exceptions would be defined in the handbook and probably allow the company name tag only.

As for allowing it for 2 years. That was also explained. Management had been lax and recently "had a change in command at the corporate level". The personal appearance guidelines had always been in place, just not enforced. They are now being enforced.
The negative reputation the hotel may have developed as a result of this will blow over in a couple of months and will be forgotten.

Oh, and clearly this was not an un-American move on the part of the company what with a huge American flag flying out front.
 
Last edited:

KE4RWS

Member
Joined
Oct 30, 2004
Messages
291
Location
South Florida
The policy stated "no other buttons, badges, pins or insignias of any kind are permitted to be worn" There didn't seem to be an exception for a flag pin in that statement so the need to discern pin or flag types is irrelevant. I would guess the only pin exceptions would be defined in the handbook and probably allow the company name tag only.

As for allowing it for 2 years. That was also explained. Management had been lax and recently "had a change in command at the corporate level". The personal appearance guidelines had always been in place, just not enforced. They are now being enforced.
The negative reputation the hotel may have developed as a result of this will blow over in a couple of months and will be forgotten.
And the negative reputation this hotel received was well-deserved to NOT discern our nations flag as an exception. I guess you have to be a veteran to really understand the true implication of this.

Bonehead rule by a bonehead organization :p
 
Last edited:

JoeyC

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 19, 2002
Messages
3,403
Location
San Diego, CA
Personal opinion and passion is not going to cut it when the company has to defend its position in court when Jose wants to sue for discrimination when he is not allowed to wear the Mexican flag and Sean IS allowed to wear the American flag.
 

KE4RWS

Member
Joined
Oct 30, 2004
Messages
291
Location
South Florida
Only difference with that is this happens to be the country represented by the flag he was wearing. If you are an American wearing a US flag pin in China it would be very different. However, this being the USA, I think a person should be able to wear their country's flag [pin] on their lapel provided it isn't some ridiculous size or modified version of it.

But you're right about this being a passion issue. If you fight for the country you call home, you tend to take it personally when some snot-nosed kid tells you to remove your US flag from your lapel or your fired. In most cases, those who are not vets or have served in some capacity don't tend to understand the far-reaching implication of this kind of act.
 

JoeyC

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 19, 2002
Messages
3,403
Location
San Diego, CA
...when some snot-nosed kid tells you to remove your US flag from your lapel or your fired.
... I think a person should be able to wear their country's flag [pin] on their lapel provided it isn't some ridiculous size or modified version of it.

Well, in all honesty, you don't know if the supervisor was some "snot-nosed kid" and what you or I think should be allowed isn't the issue. There are bigger potential issues to deal with if policy is not followed.
 

KE4RWS

Member
Joined
Oct 30, 2004
Messages
291
Location
South Florida
Well, in all honesty, you don't know if the supervisor was some "snot-nosed kid" and what you or I think should be allowed isn't the issue. There are bigger potential issues to deal with if policy is not followed.
Whatever joey.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top