encrypted fire traffic ?

[scannersnstuff]

although i'm pretty advanced in general radio knowledge,i'm not real up on this aspect.does anyone know of any state,county or municipal system's where the fire frequencies or fire talkgroups are encrypted ?.if so where are they located ?.i know federal fire sometime's is encrypted.i think ?.also is there any big push on for entities to encrypt their fire communication's ?. thank's for any help or insight.

 

[Grog]

It's a bad idea, just like some who use P25 for fireground comms. Hell, I think using anything but analog simplex is not in the best needs of the firefighters on the scene. If someone needs to talk with dispatch, that's what command is for. They'll be outside where its safe, so let them carry two radios.


I think Philadelphia or Pittsburgh use encryption for their fire service comms, a search of the DB should help.

 

[n2mdk]

According to the Db Philly does on some TGs http://www.radioreference.com/apps/db/?sid=833

 

[Jay911]

It's a bad idea, just like some who use P25 for fireground comms. Hell, I think using anything but analog simplex is not in the best needs of the firefighters on the scene.

Grog and I agree. Incredible.

 

[GM]

"Can you hear me now??" "Dispatch repeat the last message??" "Your coming in garbled, did you say 'get off the roof?'" Yep, Edison, NJ Fire (TRS) is sometimes P25 ENC on the Dispatch side on Fireground 1 and 2 as well as EMS Ops and Inquiry (only the Dispatch side [sometimes]).

 

[RodStrong]

Most of Garfield County, Colorado's fire tactical TGs are encrypted. They do have some mutual aid fire TGs that are in the clear.

 

[Grog]

Grog and I agree. Incredible.

Well the stars do align just right every so often :lol: Does that mean you want to go out and pick up hot midgets with me?

 

[LEH]

The departments on the York County Virginia system use encryption. These are York County, James City County, Cities of Williamsburg and Poquoson.

Comms are not 100% encrypted, just enough to be a real PITA.

 

[n4voxgill]

On April 1, all Orlando Police and Fire Communications will be encrypted.

 

[patrick911]

In Quebec Canada the Laval fire department uses ProVoice + encryption on all of their talkgroups.

 

[policefreak]

I believe in Cecil County, MD the comms are as good as encrypted, everything down there (police, fire, EMS) is provoice digital.

 

[SCPD]

Laredo TX uses 100% encryption on fire talkgroups.

 

[CAPTLPOL1]

OK, we have heard that these agencies are using encryption, what is their respective reasoning for doing so?

 

[RogerH11]

OK, we have heard that these agencies are using encryption, what is their respective reasoning for doing so?

So you can't listen to them on a scanner. That's the only reason for them to do so.

 

[GTR8000]

OK, we have heard that these agencies are using encryption, what is their respective reasoning for doing so?

If you're a taxpayer within a jurisdiction that uses encryption, attend a public meeting and ask your elected officials. Beyond that, you're due no explanation, justification or reason.

While I personally do not agree with using anything other than plain old analog simplex for fireground com (for safety reasons), I can certainly understand why depts would not want the public monitoring them. And no, it has nothing to do with us "hiding" anything. :roll:

 

[ibagli]

I can certainly understand why depts would not want the public monitoring them. And no, it has nothing to do with us "hiding" anything. :roll:

Actually, if you're stopping people from listening for any reason, to stop them from hearing anything, you are by definition hiding what is being transmitted. It may not be for nefarious, tinfoil hat reasons, but it meets the definition of "hiding." (Sorry for the nitpick)

 

[JoeyC]

Encryption is simply a option to buy on the radio system. If the agency wants to buy the option thats their business.

If I'm buying a car I have no obligation to consult with other drivers as to the options I purchase for my car.
:roll:

 

[firetaz834]

That may be true, but if your working on a mutual aid system and other department are going to work with you on your frequency then if your using encryption then you will have to insure they are also using the same frequency or your going to have to buy them a car also so they can work with you.

I'm looking at it from two different fronts as a firefighter I want my command staff to insure that I'm working safe and that responding mutual aid departments are able to communicate with us properly and safely.

But, on the otherhand as a taxpayer in the community I would find it quite appaling that my department would have to spend extra money to outfit responding mutual aid departments with radio equipment to communicate with us when they would have radio equipment that would communicate without any issues if encryption was not employed.

 

[GTR8000]

Actually, if you're stopping people from listening for any reason, to stop them from hearing anything, you are by definition hiding what is being transmitted. It may not be for nefarious, tinfoil hat reasons, but it meets the definition of "hiding." (Sorry for the nitpick)

True! You hit on what I was trying to get at in what I put in bold. Too often there are conspiracy theorists or cynics ready to level accusations of an agency having something sinister worth hiding because they choose to go with an encrypted/unmonitorable system. While I'm not suggesting that every person in every agency is perfect or without fault, the idea of there being agency-wide corruption as the motivating factor for using this type of system is just silly.

Sometimes we just don't want people listening to us, simple as that! It's a screwed up, politically correct and uber-sensitive world we live in, where almost everyone has a recording device of some sort that is always rolling. Couple that with the fact that people are so quick to criticize or bring litigation based on usually nothing more than circumstantial or anecdotal "evidence", and it's no wonder so many agencies are moving towards these unmonitorable technologies!

Encryption is simply a option to buy on the radio system. If the agency wants to buy the option thats their business.

If I'm buying a car I have no obligation to consult with other drivers as to the options I purchase for my car.
:roll:

Good analogy, although in fairness I would suggest that if you are a resident taxpayer within a jurisdiction that is spending the money for these technologies (not cheap), you do have a right to question it using the proper forum to do so. By all means, keep them honest. Also realize and accept that in the end, they're going to do what they feel is best for their own wellbeing and, in this case, the good of the general public they are charged with protecting.

It's the people who are always crying foul because these technologies are killing their monitoring hobby that I can't quite understand. Listen, I'm not an insensitive bastard, I sympathize with the fact that it sucks if there's nothing to listen to, but it is what it is. If I hear someone exclaim one more time that it's their God given RIGHT to monitor all our communications, I'm going to puke. While it may be legal (in most cases) to monitor those transmissions which are sent "in the clear", it by no means implies any rights above and beyond that!

 

[CAPTLPOL1]

If you're a taxpayer within a jurisdiction that uses encryption, attend a public meeting and ask your elected officials. Beyond that, you're due no explanation, justification or reason.

While I personally do not agree with using anything other than plain old analog simplex for fireground com (for safety reasons), I can certainly understand why depts would not want the public monitoring them. And no, it has nothing to do with us "hiding" anything. :roll:

I am just nearly gathering data and not questioning as to why specific agencies are doing so. I am just asking why they feel the need too. We don't do it because we feel the need not too. I just simply asked for reasons and justifications not hey you should not do that and what are you hiding. I am not a tinfoil the sky is falling type. I am actually getting ready to run for office myself if I can get enough support to go through the election.