BCD325P2: Encrypted Frequencies And Talkgroups

Status
Not open for further replies.

JASII

Member
Joined
Apr 29, 2006
Messages
2,295
When I had a BCD996XT and ran it under Butel's ARC XT PRO, encrypted frequencies and talkgroups we logged and then locked out, since that is how I configured my ARC XT. With the BCD325P2, an encrypted talkgroup shows on the display, but it does NOT log it or lock it out. Is that how all Unidens deal with encrypted frequencies and talkgroups now? Also, should there be an ENC symbol on the BCD325P2 display?
 

jonwienke

Member
Joined
Jul 18, 2014
Messages
9,311
Location
PA
Automatic lockout of encrypted traffic is a function of the software, not the scanner. And it is kinda dumb because many channels have a mix of clear and encrypted traffic.
 

kma371

QRT
Joined
Feb 20, 2001
Messages
6,190
Automatic lockout of encrypted traffic is a function of the software, not the scanner. And it is kinda dumb because many channels have a mix of clear and encrypted traffic.
I believe some of the newer unidens mute encrypted audio so it doesn't stop like it used to (probably why it's not logging) I think that's what he's referring to. That's a unidens thing, not a software thing.
 

JASII

Member
Joined
Apr 29, 2006
Messages
2,295
BCD325P2: Encrypted Frequencies And Talkgroups

I believe some of the newer unidens mute encrypted audio so it doesn't stop like it used to (probably why it's not logging) I think that's what he's referring to. That's a unidens thing, not a software thing.
So, it is only on the newer Unidens then? It was kind of nice to be able to check the History Log and see what talkgroups were active, even if they were encrypted.
 

kma371

QRT
Joined
Feb 20, 2001
Messages
6,190
So, it is only on the newer Unidens then? It was kind of nice to be able to check the History Log and see what talkgroups were active, even if they were encrypted.
Pretty sure. The HP models do it from what I remember reading.
 

jonwienke

Member
Joined
Jul 18, 2014
Messages
9,311
Location
PA
The scanner still pauses on the channel while it is active and displays ENC, it just doesn't play noise if it recognizes the transmission is encrypted.
 

SOFA_KING

Member
Joined
Apr 25, 2004
Messages
1,580
Location
SE Florida
If the 325P2 is the same as the 996P2, and I suspect it is, I have noticed that CONVENTIONAL P25 encryption is totally skipped over now...and how much better it is when you are in listening mode scanning, as opposed to search mode. Most of what I listen to is mixed-mode, so I get all the good stuff without wasting time sitting on the unusable stuff. But I understand the need to collect data, and do all that on my TRX-2.

The sad thing is that Uniden doesn't even show any info on encrypted voice (or data) P25 transmissions in SEARCH mode. I asked Uniden to change that, and they didn't. I think that would have solved the problem (show all info on either convention search or trunked TG ID search) while leaving SCAN modes automatically skipping over useless ENC stuff. You would get the best of both worlds.

As for locking out encrypted trunked talk groups in the database, not really necessary now that the updated firmware will skip over encryption anyway. Not every encrypted situation is full-time strapped. But if you know one is strapped, it would be better to lock it out...or leave it out of the scan list. If we were able to get the info we want on search functions, you could control that either way (got it already, or need more intel). Hopefully Uniden will take the hint here (and elsewhere) and give us the options we need. Until then, the Whistler scanners are doing fantastic on data collection...even without the need of always having to have a computer attached. All the info is captured on recorded (clear or encrypted) transmissions...and now also the NAC, which was a recent addition. :)

PS - x36 scanners are doing the same.

Phil
 
Last edited:

kennyloatman

Member
Joined
Jun 25, 2007
Messages
578
Location
Cumberland Co., NJ
So I wondered why my P2's (996 & 325) didn't skip over the Encryption garble on the P25 system I listen to. I had them in the ID search mode, ID scan not picking up the garble. Learn something new everyday.
Update to my post is that it didn't work, I still pick up the constant garble on an encrypted ID.
 
Last edited:

JASII

Member
Joined
Apr 29, 2006
Messages
2,295
BCD325P2: Encrypted Frequencies And Talkgroups

...Update to my post is that it didn't work, I still pick up the constant garble on an encrypted ID.
I will just throw this out there, too, then. Since there is more than one type of encryption, is it possible that it behaves one way with one type of encryption and a different way with another type? For example, I understand that ADP is a proprietary Motorola format, perhaps IS receiving that noise.

DES-OFB will work with multiple radio types. Could that be the one that is completely muted?

ADP encryption is a Motorola format and will only work with Motorola radios. The keys can only be loaded into the radios using software CPS. ADP encryption cannot be loaded into consoles. This format can only be used between Motorola radios and is not fully interoperable.
 

GTR8000

Well Known Member
Database Admin
Joined
Oct 4, 2007
Messages
7,541
Location
BEE00
ADP encryption is a Motorola format and will only work with Motorola radios. The keys can only be loaded into the radios using software CPS. ADP encryption cannot be loaded into consoles. This format can only be used between Motorola radios and is not fully interoperable.
Sorry, but all of that is factually incorrect.

  • Other manufacturers have recently started to offer 40-bit RC4 encryption that is fully compatible with Motorola's ADP. Harris and Kenwood are two examples of manufactures that now offer it.
  • ADP keys can be either software or hardware in XTS and APX subscribers. In software mode, they are keyed directly into CPS; in hardware mode, they are loaded with a KVL. When using hardware encryption, a subscriber can have ADP and AES coexisting together, both loaded with the KVL
  • ADP can most certainly be loaded into consoles. With the MCC 7500, it is loaded into the VPM with a KVL using the same method as loading into a subscriber. The same is true for the NICE logger, the key gets loaded into the AIS using the KVL.
  • See the first point regarding other manufacturers now offering a fully compatible algorithm
 

SOFA_KING

Member
Joined
Apr 25, 2004
Messages
1,580
Location
SE Florida
I will just throw this out there, too, then. Since there is more than one type of encryption, is it possible that it behaves one way with one type of encryption and a different way with another type? For example, I understand that ADP is a proprietary Motorola format, perhaps IS receiving that noise.

DES-OFB will work with multiple radio types. Could that be the one that is completely muted?

ADP encryption is a Motorola format and will only work with Motorola radios. The keys can only be loaded into the radios using software CPS. ADP encryption cannot be loaded into consoles. This format can only be used between Motorola radios and is not fully interoperable.
Might be. AES and OFB are muted (and skipped in scan) on my 996P2 and 536/436. ADP? Can't say yet. My county will be going ADP on the new 9600 P25 system just waiting to be migrated to ( :( ), so I'll know soon. DMR is not muted or skipped on my x36 scanners, and neither is TDMA X2 encryption off the Apopka system near Orlando...whatever variant that was. I would think there is a flag in the data stream that is easily read and that the scanner knows what to do when it "sees" that. Why would ADP not have a flag? Or maybe it's different and Uniden didn't handle that (yet). Total speculation on that part. I have no good test case around me at this time.

Phil
 

JASII

Member
Joined
Apr 29, 2006
Messages
2,295
BCD325P2: Encrypted Frequencies And Talkgroups

Thank you for all of the replies. I think I might actually prefer the skipping part after all. In the past, if the ARC XT PRO was logging activity, I really had no way to tell from the History Log which was "in the clear" and which was encrypted.
 

jonwienke

Member
Joined
Jul 18, 2014
Messages
9,311
Location
PA
I've noted occasionally inconsistent behavior regarding encryption. P25 systems consistently display the ENC indicator, and most of the time the scanner pauses while the encrypted traffic is active, but is silent. With DMR, it's a coin toss whether the ENC indicator shows, and the garbled audio usually plays regardless of whether ENC shows or not.
 

slicerwizard

Member
Joined
Sep 19, 2002
Messages
5,529
Location
Toronto, Ontario
I will just throw this out there, too, then. Since there is more than one type of encryption, is it possible that it behaves one way with one type of encryption and a different way with another type?
Highly unlikely. A scanner would only care if a call is in clear mode or not.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top