Encryption on 8-Tac-2

Status
Not open for further replies.

N8IAA

Member
Joined
Dec 19, 2002
Messages
6,797
Location
Fortunately, GA
Since it's been quiet on the CoE TGID's, switched to monitoring the 8-Tac channels. I've been getting activity on 851.5125 with encryption. They're still running PL in analog mode. I'm guessing some fed activity. Anyone else monitoring these frequencies?
Larry
 

procopper7005

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
May 3, 2009
Messages
335
Location
Texas
Since it's been quiet on the CoE TGID's, switched to monitoring the 8-Tac channels. I've been getting activity on 851.5125 with encryption. They're still running PL in analog mode. I'm guessing some fed activity. Anyone else monitoring these frequencies?
Larry
Thats odd, my radio will only let me select encryption on certain talk groups but definitely not on a conventional tac.
 

MTS2000des

Member
Joined
Jul 12, 2008
Messages
2,985
Location
Cobb County, GA Stadium Crime Zone
Thats odd, my radio will only let me select encryption on certain talk groups but definitely not on a conventional tac.
Encryption enable/disable can be "strapped" to a mode/channel, meaning a user cannot use a menu option or concentric switch to disable it (secure voice only), or can be set to user selectable (usually secure/clear concentric switch on XTS radios and MTS2000), or disabled completely on a per conventional personality and trunked personality basis in the CPS.

It all depends on how your radio is programmed and who is doing the programming. :lol:
 

procopper7005

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
May 3, 2009
Messages
335
Location
Texas
Encryption enable/disable can be "strapped" to a mode/channel, meaning a user cannot use a menu option or concentric switch to disable it (secure voice only), or can be set to user selectable (usually secure/clear concentric switch on XTS radios and MTS2000), or disabled completely on a per conventional personality and trunked personality basis in the CPS.

It all depends on how your radio is programmed and who is doing the programming. :lol:
I load the key myself but the shop does the programming.

For instance, I use a 'boomerang' VHF to 800 P-25 TG repeater to receive low power VHF conventional body wire or bug and repeat it, encrypted, over a certain TG. On occasion I might forget to select the secure switch on the boomerang (which is a suitcase repeater with an XTS5000 inside) and I am able to pick up the traffic with a scanner on the TG. So it is selectable.
 

MTS2000des

Member
Joined
Jul 12, 2008
Messages
2,985
Location
Cobb County, GA Stadium Crime Zone
also check with your shop and make sure they haven't set the deviation on the conventionals to narrow (2.5 or 4K), both P25 and secure require wideband deviation. 8-TAC/I-TAC should be set to 5KHz dev. regardless.
 

kf4lhp

Member
Joined
Jul 6, 2001
Messages
268
Location
Harrison, TN
P25 - encrypted or clear - doesn't require wideband deviation. On 700 MHz, it uses 2.5 kHz deviation, the NPSPAC portion of 800 MHz (851-854 MHz) is 4 kHz deviation, and the rest of 800 MHz is 5 kHz deviation.
 

N8IAA

Member
Joined
Dec 19, 2002
Messages
6,797
Location
Fortunately, GA
Wow. Amazing how my post was hijacked:confused: None of what I asked is being answered. My scanner/scanners auto select the mode: FM, NFM, P-25. It is an analog transmission. The PL is 156.7. There is in the clear and encrypted transmissions. I just wondered if anyone else has monitored these transmissions. Not whose radio does what.
Larry
 

ecps92

Member
Joined
Jul 8, 2002
Messages
10,625
Location
Taxachusetts
I've never experienced ENC on the Mutual Aid Channels [here in New England] but then each Region does it's own thing.

What type of ENC??

Wow. Amazing how my post was hijacked:confused: None of what I asked is being answered. My scanner/scanners auto select the mode: FM, NFM, P-25. It is an analog transmission. The PL is 156.7. There is in the clear and encrypted transmissions. I just wondered if anyone else has monitored these transmissions. Not whose radio does what.
Larry
 

MTS2000des

Member
Joined
Jul 12, 2008
Messages
2,985
Location
Cobb County, GA Stadium Crime Zone
P25 - encrypted or clear - doesn't require wideband deviation. On 700 MHz, it uses 2.5 kHz deviation, the NPSPAC portion of 800 MHz (851-854 MHz) is 4 kHz deviation, and the rest of 800 MHz is 5 kHz deviation.
he didn't specify if it was P25 encryption or DES-XL, which uses SELP and will NOT work on 2.5KHz narrowband channels. try it yourself.

Just got through programming two XTS5K's equipped with DES-XL/OFB and set the concentric switch to coded/clear. When I did CPS (V16.01 BTW) refused to allow me to set ANY conventional modes to narrow (2.5KHz).
 

kf4lhp

Member
Joined
Jul 6, 2001
Messages
268
Location
Harrison, TN
Wow. Amazing how my post was hijacked:confused: None of what I asked is being answered. My scanner/scanners auto select the mode: FM, NFM, P-25. It is an analog transmission. The PL is 156.7. There is in the clear and encrypted transmissions. I just wondered if anyone else has monitored these transmissions. Not whose radio does what.
Larry
Haven't ever heard it, but a quick check in my interop field guides doesn't say you can't - and we all know the difference between theory and practice.

It's radio, expect the unexpected!
 

kf4lhp

Member
Joined
Jul 6, 2001
Messages
268
Location
Harrison, TN
he didn't specify if it was P25 encryption or DES-XL, which uses SELP and will NOT work on 2.5KHz narrowband channels. try it yourself.

Just got through programming two XTS5K's equipped with DES-XL/OFB and set the concentric switch to coded/clear. When I did CPS (V16.01 BTW) refused to allow me to set ANY conventional modes to narrow (2.5KHz).
(continuing the thread-jack)

True on the analog encryption modes (DES-XL, DVP-XL and such) not working on narrowband.

I tried this same thing (same version of CPS, BTW) and get the same result - which surprised me. But my APX doesn't complain. Interesting...
 

ecps92

Member
Joined
Jul 8, 2002
Messages
10,625
Location
Taxachusetts
Guess they want their own Private Room :roll:

Wow. Amazing how my post was hijacked:confused: None of what I asked is being answered. My scanner/scanners auto select the mode: FM, NFM, P-25. It is an analog transmission. The PL is 156.7. There is in the clear and encrypted transmissions. I just wondered if anyone else has monitored these transmissions. Not whose radio does what.
Larry
 

c5corvette

Member
Joined
Sep 17, 2008
Messages
702
Location
*REBANDED*
Wow. Amazing how my post was hijacked:confused: None of what I asked is being answered. My scanner/scanners auto select the mode: FM, NFM, P-25. It is an analog transmission. The PL is 156.7. There is in the clear and encrypted transmissions. I just wondered if anyone else has monitored these transmissions. Not whose radio does what.
Larry

The only question I saw in the original post was "Anyone else monitoring these frequencies?"

To answer the original question... yes, there are thousands and thousands of people around North America (including Georgia) monitoring these!!!
 

N8IAA

Member
Joined
Dec 19, 2002
Messages
6,797
Location
Fortunately, GA
The only question I saw in the original post was "Anyone else monitoring these frequencies?"

To answer the original question... yes, there are thousands and thousands of people around North America (including Georgia) monitoring these!!!
Again, asking this in the Georgia forum. Wondered if anyone in the metro ATL area is monitoring these frequencies. Especially in the north metro area. I know that there is local use, there is a PD exercise going on in my immediate area right now. There is also a bit more distant comms, not by much, going on on 8TAC 3.
Larry

I'm going to hazard a guess that it is the Cumming Fairgrounds by what is being said. Exercise is over. Encryption heard again.
Larry
 
Last edited:

ecps92

Member
Joined
Jul 8, 2002
Messages
10,625
Location
Taxachusetts
Thanks, wasn't sure, since some folks still add on those funky {Transcrypt} rolling-code speech inversion boards, like the NFL uses. :)

Oh, by the way, it was DES. Not P-25. I thought it was clear when 156.7 PL in analog was mentioned.
Larry
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top