Encryption, why not everyone...

[MetalCarnage]

Hey, was just wondering what peoples opinions/reasonings are for why every PD department hasnt encrypted there frequencies like Niagra has....is it just because of financial reasons? I have ideas why but i was wondering if someone has a little more factual knowledge on why they dont.....thanks

 

[hemi]

I agree with you,cost.When Belleville city pd asked for a new system the city council nearly keeled over.The pd won out in the end.

 

[Colin9690]

Many PDs only encrypt special frequencies like Vice squad or SWAT. Some cities may encrypt ALL frequencies if they have a problem with criminals listening on scanners. Also, many cities stay analog because scanner listeners can be a major help to public safety. Ex. If there is a man search going on and you are listening on the scanner, and the PD can't find them, If you see something suspicious, you can report it to law enforcement. If everybody was encrypted, you couldn't do that.

 

[DaveH]

I agree with you,cost.When Belleville city pd asked for a new system the city council nearly keeled over.The pd won out in the end.

Unless I've missed something, Belleville PD is APCO-25 but not encrypted; or perhaps some of it is.

Dave

 

[khvfdff]

If you ask me the whole encryption thing is stupid. But I could see encrypting certain channels such as VICE/NARCOTICS. But otherwise it is pretty plain downright stupid to encrypt a whole system like Jacksonville, FL Sheriff's Office is. What is left when you start encrypting channels the fire department oh and the city governments. It gets pretty boring after a while. Even the Florida Highway Patrol is encrypted. I don't know what is going on in my area unless I hear about it on the news or the fire department channels.

 

[N_Jay]

If you ask me the whole encryption thing is stupid. But I could see encrypting certain channels such as VICE/NARCOTICS.

Guess that is why they did not ask you. :twisted: :wink:

. . . What is left when you start encrypting channels the fire department oh and the city governments. It gets pretty boring after a while. . . . .

Oh, I'm sorry, I did not know the purpose of their communications system was to entertain you? :roll: :wink:

Sorry for the sarcasim, but this whole think gets a bit repetative.

 

[motomeso]

I agree with you,cost.When Belleville city pd asked for a new system the city council nearly keeled over.The pd won out in the end.

Unless I've missed something, Belleville PD is APCO-25 but not encrypted; or perhaps some of it is.

Dave

I heard Belleville PD on 142.035mhz last week while cruising through using P25 with no encryption.

 

[mciupa]

wondering why every PD hasn't encrypted their frequencies like Niagara has...?

Perhaps some Police Services want to be perceived as transparent,
(meaning they have nothing to hide) and have a good working relationship with media .

I'm wondering if this was a problem in the past for Niagara, Durham, Ottawa ?

 

[khvfdff]

If you ask me the whole encryption thing is stupid. But I could see encrypting certain channels such as VICE/NARCOTICS.

Guess that is why they did not ask you. :twisted: :wink:

. . . What is left when you start encrypting channels the fire department oh and the city governments. It gets pretty boring after a while. . . . .

Oh, I'm sorry, I did not know the purpose of their communications system was to entertain you? :roll: :wink:

Sorry for the sarcasim, but this whole think gets a bit repetative.

I did not mean to make it sound the way that I did. I also like being able to listen to some of the Sheriff and PD channels. After listening to the same channels over and over again for awhile, I like a change in what I listen to on a scanner.

 

[jellotor]

Perhaps some Police Services want to be perceived as transparent,
(meaning they have nothing to hide) and have a good working relationship with media .

I'm wondering if this was a problem in the past for Niagara, Durham, Ottawa ?

I can assure you that while NRPS wants to appear as though they are a transparent organization there are a number of incidents that we have witnessed in the past year or so that prove otherwise.

An excellent comparison is NRPS and Hamilton police. Both isssue daily press releases, have public information officers and have sergeants on duty overnight who are willing to inform the media about ongoing incidents.

However, when you get into situations that involve officer safety (a NRPS police chase in Grimsby this week was never paged out to us) NRPS tends to go quiet. It's easy to understand why; nobody wants a camera crew or photogs swarming a dangerous scene. However, Hamilton PS seems to trust that the media won't get in the way a lot more. NRPS always issues a press release, but often that is too late to get scene pictures. Sigh.

I don't want to bash the NRPS. Every officer I've ever met treated me with respect, even if I was speeding! Do I agree with their brass when it comes to encryption? Hell, no. But my opinion doesn't matter.

As a side note, a rural OPP constable was telling me that she was concerned that since the OPP went to Fleetnet (P25) that it would be more difficult for the public to monitor. Obviously some grunts in the trenches see the benefit to unencrypted communications.

Just my 2 cents worth.

 

[Jammin_Jay]

As for Ottawa being with Pro-voice I believe is strictly a matter audio quaility in a digital format that is superb over other digital audio voice quality. Not all cities have a budget to suffice for what a dept may want or what is recommended by the Radio Service Provider. They opt for cheaper encryption such as voice inversion where they can be happy with it being encrypted and the city can be happy with the price tag at the end. It's all a matter of coming to a happy medium. Yes cost is a big thing these days

 

[MetalCarnage]

Many PDs only encrypt special frequencies like Vice squad or SWAT. Some cities may encrypt ALL frequencies if they have a problem with criminals listening on scanners. Also, many cities stay analog because scanner listeners can be a major help to public safety. Ex. If there is a man search going on and you are listening on the scanner, and the PD can't find them, If you see something suspicious, you can report it to law enforcement. If everybody was encrypted, you couldn't do that.

Good point, i never really thought about it that way, although as we all know there are the morons out there that cancel out our good doings by using scanners for negative purposes :evil:

 

[SMB]

Encryption Why not everyone.

Well there is one thing for sure encrypting will never stop crime or terrorist. Just ask people in LOndon.

 

[N_Jay]

Re: Encryption Why not everyone.

Well there is one thing for sure encrypting will never stop crime or terrorist. Just ask people in LOndon.

Well I am so happy you live in a Black and White world! :wink:

Too bad all of the rest of us have to deal with the murky range in between! :evil:

Sorry to those who don't appreciate my sarcasm, but really, show me one example of where SMB's thinking plays out?

Oh, I have safety belts, I don't need to slow down? :roll:
I have a smoke alarm, so it is safe to leave the fireplace going? :roll:

 

[JoeyC]

Too often people try to rationalize things they don't approve of by saying it "will never blah blah blah completely" Whether it be Encryption in PS radio or the War on Terror every effort taken is just that, an effort. Add up the efforts and you build a more complete deterrant.

Nobody expects encryption "will stop crime" not even the police chief who pushed for it. Hardly ANY criminal is listening to a scanner in the first place, but depending on locale, some are. If you deter one crime by use of encryption over the lifetime of the radio system, then encryption works. Same story for the war on terror (not to get off topic but to continue the thought). Of course putting an extra cop on a train or bus station isn't going to totally eliminate the threat. If a terrorist strapped explosives to his chest and walked into a crowded train station, that extra cop just might see him and prevent a problem. Even if 1000 other bombers succeeded, preventing one made the system work.

Get over whining about encryption, as was stated before, none of us scanner monitors likes it, but those radio systems are not designed for your entertainment. Just because you paid taxes that contributed to the implementation of the system doesn't give you rights to ownership.

 

[Heterodyne]

Re: Encryption Why not everyone.

The answer to the quesiton is simple: MONEY.

Encryption costs money.. lots of money. Upgrading infrastructure to support encryption is pretty costly, not too mention the manpower it takes to implement and support it (not only installing the equipment, but upgrading/keyloading all of the radios). Trust me, if it were easy and cheap, every police department in the word would encrypt. Scanner enthusiasts don't realize one critical fact: we are all pests (at least any PD's exposure to them), and very seldom do they do any good for the department (for every one "that guy you are chasing is in my backyard" call, there's some idiot mishearing something on the scanner and reporting it as some sort of complaint or some loser showing up at a scene with their scanner blasting..... or someone repeating what the retard Corey Mills did... or whatever the fool's name was)

And JoeyC... right on the money, man.. nice post.

Well there is one thing for sure encrypting will never stop crime or terrorist. Just ask people in LOndon.

Yeesh. I'm not even going to bother responding to that comment... (oops)

 

[kikito]

Re: Encryption Why not everyone.

Well I am so happy you live in a Black and White world! :wink:

Too bad all of the rest of us have to deal with the murky range in between! :evil:

Sorry to those who don't appreciate my sarcasm, but really, show me one example of where SMB's thinking plays out?

Oh, I have safety belts, I don't need to slow down? :roll:
I have a smoke alarm, so it is safe to leave the fireplace going? :roll:

Hello N_Jay,

It's me again and I have a question for you, kind of unrelated to the topic at hand that you seem to defend so much (encryption) but just as controversial nonetheless.

Are you pro or against gun control?

That may sound odd to ask but it'll give me a better perspective of your personal agenda or thinking.

 

[kikito]

Re: Encryption Why not everyone.

Scanner enthusiasts don't realize one critical fact: we are all pests (at least any PD's exposure to them), and very seldom do they do any good for the department

Believe it or not, there's many departments out there that DO benefit from that interaction or don't care if the public is listening.

Then there's people that seem to favor the "Marshal Law" approach to the whole issue.... :roll: :twisted:

 

[kikito]

Get over whining about encryption, as was stated before, none of us scanner monitors likes it, but those radio systems are not designed for your entertainment. Just because you paid taxes that contributed to the implementation of the system doesn't give you rights to ownership.

Yeah sure, you probably would let the government do whatever they want and take whatever rights away from you in favor of your so-called safety and security.... :roll:

Some of you don't seem to get the "big picture" about stuff like this. Every year they keep taking away or blocking stuff that where once public domain information in the name of "Homeland Security" and "War against Terror". Little by little our rights and openness about all things keeps getting reduced.

While you're justifying in here the use of encryption, somewhere else someone is favoring and justifying our personal guns taken away. And yet someone else somewhere is working on closing an unknown "loophole" in the "Freedom of Information Act"....

 

[kikito]

Re: Encryption Why not everyone.

Oh, I have safety belts, I don't need to slow down? :roll:
I have a smoke alarm, so it is safe to leave the fireplace going? :roll:

EXACTLY!

So why add more convoluted restrictions, rules, regulations and laws to the already thousands in existence if it's not going to help anymore the same thing they're trying to avoid?

Except for occasionally getting the law-abiding citizen in trouble or a ticket, why (for example) have a seat-belt law if it's not really helping matters or "saving" the regular citizen from themselves....

Why waste all that time, money and effort in things like encryption when you have stuff like this happening?: http://www.radioreference.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=27670

Workers leaving running trains unattended for hours, again, because of laws trying to "protect" us all....

Can you imagine the destruction of a train loaded with explosives running full speed towards Central Station?

[sarcasm]But I feel secured that it won't happen because my local PD is encrypted! :roll: :twisted:[/sarcasm]

Let's get it over with right now and take away all my rights and glue me to a chair in front of a TV and make me an obedient and exemplary citizen the "government' want us all to be.... :roll: