Encryption

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KA9EES

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I am curious. Are any public services encrypted? A friend stated the Christian County in IL is encrypted. He says all he hears is a rushing sound on his scanner. I don't believe it's digital trunking scanner. Since I am too far away for that county I have no way of testing. Any thoughts?
 

mike_s104

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I am curious. Are any public services encrypted? A friend stated the Christian County in IL is encrypted. He says all he hears is a rushing sound on his scanner. I don't believe it's digital trunking scanner. Since I am too far away for that county I have no way of testing. Any thoughts?
Have you/he looked in the RR DB? There is a mix in that county. The sheriff's office dispatch is P25 and encrypted whereas the TAC channel is FM. One ambulance service is DMR. Everything else is analog.

http://www.radioreference.com/apps/db/?ctid=601

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
 

KA9EES

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Have you/he looked in the RR DB? There is a mix in that county. The sheriff's office dispatch is P25 and encrypted whereas the TAC channel is FM. One ambulance service is DMR. Everything else is analog.

Christian County, Illinois (IL) Scanner Frequencies and Radio Frequency Reference

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That was gonna be my next question. Was it P25 that was considered encryption or not. Apparently it is both. Thanks. And thanks also to RobnJ74 for pointing me to the data base!
 

jaspence

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I was visiting my family in IL two weeks ago and heard a good portion of the new system using encryption.
 

ECB85

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It would be interesting in a new update, a button for digital encryption, such as the Alinco in analog and other brands. I do not know if I can explain the tuning until it is audible.sorry guys my English is horrible.
 

troymail

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I am curious. Are any public services encrypted? A friend stated the Christian County in IL is encrypted. He says all he hears is a rushing sound on his scanner. I don't believe it's digital trunking scanner. Since I am too far away for that county I have no way of testing. Any thoughts?
Encryption in public safety/service and other usage is widely used. As others have mentioned, you can look for the "E" on talkgroups. Since the database is based on user contributions and the fact that things change, you may find some talkgroups not marked as but using encryption and vice-versa. Some might be user driven - as in they can flip a switch if they want - verse full time encryption. in my area, we even recently had some talkgroups on several systems reverse themselves and remove the full time encryption (it's rare, but it does happen). In these cases, I know users (including me) submitted database updates to indicate the new talkgroup statuses.
That was gonna be my next question. Was it P25 that was considered encryption or not. Apparently it is both. Thanks. And thanks also to RobnJ74 for pointing me to the data base!
Many times people confuse ENCRYPTION with ENCODING. Digital is the "encoding" of voice; encryption is layered on top of the encoding.
It would be interesting in a new update, a button for digital encryption, such as the Alinco in analog and other brands. I do not know if I can explain the tuning until it is audible.sorry guys my English is horrible.
It isn't likely that manufacturers will implement anything as part of their product that attempts to override any type of privacy mode - definitely not happening for encryption (nearly impossible) and even unlikely to overcome voice inversion as well. In most places, there are laws that make features like that illegal.
 

G7HID

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AOR have recently announced this regarding the AR-DV1:

"NXDN Descramble function

(For 15 bit digital scrambling mode NXDN signals. Does not support encrypted mode NXDN signals )

-Select the NXDN mode (=D-CR) or AUTO mode.

Once the desired signal is received:

-Click once on the main dial

-Long press on MODE button

The blinking question marks means that AR-DV1 is searching for the descrambling code. It just takes 1 or 2 seconds if reception conditions are good. Once found, it will display the scramble code such as 000015 for example and you will hear the decoded voice.

Please note that although the display shows "ENC.CODE", it actually means "descramble" code. No relation to encryption."

Not sure if this relates to just the 'International' model or the North American one as well..
 

troymail

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AOR have recently announced this regarding the AR-DV1:

"NXDN Descramble function

(For 15 bit digital scrambling mode NXDN signals. Does not support encrypted mode NXDN signals )

-Select the NXDN mode (=D-CR) or AUTO mode.

Once the desired signal is received:

-Click once on the main dial

-Long press on MODE button

The blinking question marks means that AR-DV1 is searching for the descrambling code. It just takes 1 or 2 seconds if reception conditions are good. Once found, it will display the scramble code such as 000015 for example and you will hear the decoded voice.

Please note that although the display shows "ENC.CODE", it actually means "descramble" code. No relation to encryption."

Not sure if this relates to just the 'International' model or the North American one as well..
I'd be very surprised if that feature is offered in the US... and, if features like that become more wide-spread, they'll just switch to encryption if they feel their communications are that sensitive.
 

G7HID

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Have managed to find a suitable scrambled NXDN signal and can confirm the **AOR AR-DV1 is able to determine and display the code and pass the audio in the clear within a couple of seconds, the code remains on the screen and further signals are processed using that code until manually cleared..

**Using International unblocked version of the AR-DV1

Mike
 
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BrianG61UK

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Have managed to find a suitable scrambled NXDN signal and can confirm the **AOR AR-DV1 is able to determine and display the code and pass the audio in the clear within a couple of seconds, the code remains on the screen and further signals are processed using that code until manually cleared..

**Using International unblocked version of the AR-DV1

Mike
IMHO it doesn't really qualify as encryption if it can be cracked that easily.
 

troymail

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IMHO it doesn't really qualify as encryption if it can be cracked that easily.
True - and for that reason, it isn't really called "encryption". Typically, it is referred to with terms like "basic privacy" and the like.

True encryption is difficult if not impossible (and illegal) to break - but that depends on the type of encryption.
 

troymail

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It is not your opinion that counts.. It is the users that are under the impression that their conversations are private..

Mike
To add to that -- in the early days of digital, some users were falsely lead to believe that it meant no one could hear them then as well-- this could have been true for a brief period but in general, they just assumed no one could listen.

Even further back (and still in use today) is something called "Private Call" .. and many users think that too means they cannot be heard by anyone when in fact it simply meant that those who would normally hear the conversation on a regular talkgroup could not hear it.

Bottom line is that users should change their thinking and always assume that others (co-workers or even the general public) can hear them... even the use of encryption fails sometimes due to operator error and for other reasons.
 

wbswetnam

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A local police department I know of in Arkansas uses simple analog inversion voice scrambling, which is very easily unscrambled in several different ways. However, the intention of it is to prevent the public from eavesdropping on their comms, which I think by definition is 'encryption', regardless of how easy or difficult it may be to convert the audio to something understandable.
 

BrianG61UK

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A local police department I know of in Arkansas uses simple analog inversion voice scrambling, which is very easily unscrambled in several different ways. However, the intention of it is to prevent the public from eavesdropping on their comms, which I think by definition is 'encryption', regardless of how easy or difficult it may be to convert the audio to something understandable.
Technically there's only one way to "unscramble" it -- invert the spectrum again so you get back to the original.
 

wbswetnam

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Technically there's only one way to "unscramble" it -- invert the spectrum again so you get back to the original.
I was referring to the specific uses of technology for accomplishing that spectrum inversion, which I won't mention here lest I get reprimanded.
 
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