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F5061 Programming (scanning)

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Firetacoma

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Boulder, CO
I can't get my programming correct to get my radio to scan right. I have sought the help of my dealer and he sent me a file which was supposed to help but it didn't really.

Here is what I want to do:
Bank of 16 channels, have 3 or so selected with the priority being the channel the radio is set on. Transmit on the channel the radio is set on. I don't need priority A or B or any of that.

While scanning, I'd like to see the name of the scan list being scanned.

I thought I had all that good. It seemed to all be set up but I was missing almost everything. The signal strength indicator would show activity but it wouldn't stop on the active channel. I have a FD issued BK radio and I set it to scan the same channels and I was indeed missing activity on 2 channels over the course of several minutes. Sometimes it would finally stop, but VERY rarely.

I've played with multiple settings over the course of several hours now and I'm pulling my hair out! This shouldn't be this hard, right? What am I missing? Thanks in advance for any advice. I can send the .icf file to someone if that would help troubleshoot.
 

stevelton

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Apr 19, 2005
Messages
359
There is one of those radios at the EMA office. Doesn the same thing, everybody's HTs will be picking something up, but it takes a few seconds to have the base radio stop.
You can email me your icf and I'll take a look at it.

stevelton17@hotmail.com

Steven
 

Avery93

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Marion County, AL
Do you have a PL/DPL set on receive? It sounds like you may have the wrong code set.

Also, what firmware is the radio running?
 

Bill1957

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New Jersey
Re:f5061

Go into scan list and select "TEXT" for what you have in "Display text" It should give you what you named the scan list.It's the second to last column to the right.I keep mine "off "and the channels just scroll by as it scans. Also,
Try leaving receive on csq and see if that helps.You can also check your tones to make sure that they are correct. I have no problems with scan on mine.
 

Firetacoma

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Ok, so I seem to have narrowed down the problem... It's having trouble picking up transmissions on repeated frequencies while scanning. Simplex seems fine. I can get traffic just fine on those frequencies while not scanning, so it's not a matter of reception.

Also, a new issue appeared where I can't turn my second scan list on after I switch to it. First one works fine, second one won't turn on.
 

Firetacoma

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Location
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And sorry, I'm still in moderation so my replies aren't appearing very timely.

My firmware is version 4.1.

I don't see a PL/DPL option?

I don't know what CSQ is.

I'm very new to this so please bear with me and describe things to me like I were an idiot (not far off).

Steven, I'll try to get it sent later today. Thank you.
 

Bill1957

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re:F5061

I can send you a copy of my .icf file and you can look at what I have done with it and you could use it to modify your .icf file.Alco,csq is carrier squelch,i.e, no pl or dpl tones.
 

jjgarz

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Jun 11, 2011
Messages
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Change frequency

I'd like to listen to the security broadcast at the casino I work in. Can I change the frequency on RadioReference.com?
 

Firetacoma

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Jun 10, 2011
Messages
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Location
Boulder, CO
If you could send me your .icf as a go-by that would be a great help... at least then I could look to see if any of my settings are way off.

My email address is achurnside(at)gmail.com

Thanks!
 

Avery93

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Since you say the problem is with repeated channels, it's probably going to be one of two things.

Most likely, you have the wrong CTCSS (PL) or DCS (DPL) code set on the repeated channels. In the Icom software these are set under the "C.Tone" column, between the frequency columns and channel name column.

Lets say your repeater transmits a 146.2 PL tone. In order to receive this, you need to set the "C.Tone" RX field to either "off" (Carrier SQuelch), which will receive everything on the frequency; or type in 146.2 and the radio will only unmute when it detects a carrier on the frequency AND a 146.2 PL tone. If you receive a transmission with any other PL tone, the radio will not unmute.

The reason I think this is your problem is if your scanning, the RX light and signal strength indicator will flash as the radio receives a transmission with a non valid tone, skips over it, and scans through the rest of the channels until it comes to the channel again.

Another possibility is if you are very close to the units transmitting, but far away from the repeater, the units transmitting on the input frequency may be "desensing" your radio. Basically this means even though they are transmitting on a different freq (the repeater input), they are "overpowering" the more distant repeater.

Anyway, the first thing I would try is setting the "C.Tone" RX field to "off" (Carrier SQuelch), to eliminate the possibility of having the wrong tone set.
 

Firetacoma

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Jun 10, 2011
Messages
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Location
Boulder, CO
Most likely, you have the wrong CTCSS (PL) or DCS (DPL) code set on the repeated channels. In the Icom software these are set under the "C.Tone" column, between the frequency columns and channel name column.


Another possibility is if you are very close to the units transmitting, but far away from the repeater, the units transmitting on the input frequency may be "desensing" your radio. Basically this means even though they are transmitting on a different freq (the repeater input), they are "overpowering" the more distant repeater.
Ah, this is what BK refers to as Code Guard. I have verified I have these correct, but I can try turning them off to see what happens.

As far as distance from repeater, it really shouldn't matter should it? When I'm on the channel, not scanning I hear everything loud and clear. The problem only happens in scan, which is the frustrating thing!
 

stevelton

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Apr 19, 2005
Messages
359
Sorry, I wasnt able to open the icf file, I am running software 2.7, and its telling me illegal data.

About the radio not stopping on the repeated channels while scanning.

Look at the settings in the SCAN folder, under Scan Settings- and check the Slow Scan and Fast Scan times. The fast scan should be around.020 and the slow scan at .500. These would be the default times.
These times are used by the radio so it know how long it should check a channel that has a PL tone on it for a correct match. The time in the Slow Scan might be a little to quick, and the radio is not giving a channel enough time to make sure that the PL tone is the correct one. If it is set to .500 of a second, then maybe a little longer, say .600 or .700. It will slow down the overall scan speed (not a problem if you are only scanning 6-8 channels) but help the radio open the mute when its supposed to.

Steven
 

Firetacoma

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Location
Boulder, CO
Well, months later I'm still fighting this same problem!

I did take a break from it for a while my first baby was born though!

Here's a re-cap: Channels are programmed correctly with correct PL Tones (Verified by our radio guy who unfortunately only knows BK programming), I can enter scan mode, add and remove channels from the scan list, change between scan lists, etc., but it just won't stop on some channels with any regularity.

I had one channel that it was stopping on great until I re-programmed things tonight and now, I see activity on the activity bars and can hear it on my packset but the mobile doesn't stop scanning!

Here is my dream setup: 3-4 channels in the scan list that I can change on the fly in the field if necessary. The priority channel is the channel the radio is set on, and that's also the TX frequency, the display while scanning says the name of the scan list being scanned.

I could have sworn that I had all this programmed but the darned thing just won't cooperate!

Scan list info:
Scan type: Priority
Primary CH: R. Select
TX CH: R. Select
Talk Back: Off
TX Action: Pause
Cancel CH: R. Select
Text: Text

Anything glaringly obvious there?
 

nrembis

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Dec 29, 2010
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Location
Mount Orab, OH
R. Select is for 3161 portables, need to use Start CH or a Prio CH for mobile units I also suggest lowering your watch and resume settings in scan settings section to 3----2-----.5 and TB i set to 0 even though its off in scan list
 
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Messages
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Location
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You can Name your scan list and have it display that while scanning.

What are you Scan settings for slow and fast scan?

What is your squelch level at.

You can add and delete channels from your scan list by having the add and delete button active.
 

ffemt134

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Messages
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My Icom F43 does the *exact* same thing you're describing as well. I've compared it side by side with an HT1250 scanning the same channels...and it's the same story most of the time: The HT1250 will pick up activity on a channel right away, while the Icom takes its good old time (or even at all) to lock onto that same channel. Even with priority channels...somehow the Icom tends to miss it and makes having a priority channel almost pointless.

My PL's/DPL are 100% correct on my channels. And I notice the same thing as the OP, while scanning it'll show the signal strength indicator pop up, but it won't actually stop on a particular channel.
 
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Messages
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As I asked above-
What are you slow and fast scan settings?

From the help sections of the software-

Slow Scan (Sec)

Enter the time period for scanning of each channel with CTCSS/DTCS programming.
The recommended time is set by default and scan may not stop when setting a value shorter than the default


Fast Scan (Sec)

Enter the time period for scanning of each channel without CTCSS/DTCS programming.
The recommended time is set by default and scan may not stop when setting a value shorter than the default.

FNOTE:
This time period is also used for the Vote Scan that can be selected in the Zone Operation screen.

A total of 17 scanning lists are available for a wide variety and flexible scanning operation. In this screen, program scanning condition for each list.
The Scan list "Zone" set channel is scanned when it is being included in the same zone with the scan start channel.

l Display Text

Enter up to a 12 or 24-character* text to indicate message, etc. and/or indicating the scan list during scanning.

* Depending on the Display Lines setting in Key & Display Assign.

-> Details of Text setting.

l Scan Type

Set the scanning type to each scan list. Scan OFF, Normal Scan and Priority Scan are available.

The watch time period, the power ON scan function etc. is programmed in Scan Setting screen.

Scan OFF:

Scanning operation is turned OFF.

Normal Scan:

Normal scan. Scans all selected channels. The scan proceeds in sequence.

Priority Scan:

Priority scan. "Primary CH" and "Secondary CH" are used as the priority channel.

The selected channels are scanned in sequence while monitoring "Primary CH" and "Secondary CH."

When scan is paused on "Primary CH," other channels are not monitored.

When "Secondary CH" is not set:

When a signal is detected on a channel other than "Primary CH," scan pauses until the signal disappears and "Primary CH" is continuously monitored.

Scan moves and pauses on "Primary CH," if the signal is detected on.

When "Secondary CH" is set:

- When a signal is detected on a channel other than "Primary CH" or "Secondary CH," scan pauses until the signal disappears and "Primary CH" and "Secondary CH" are continuously monitored alternately.

Scan moves and pauses on "Primary CH" or "Secondary CH" if the signal is detected on.

- When a signal is detected on "Secondary CH," scan pauses until the signal disappears and "Primary CH" is continuously monitored.

Scan moves and pauses on "Primary CH" if the signal is detected on.

* "Prio A" means "Primary CH," and "Prio B" means "Secondary CH."

FNOTE:

The scanning channels are selected in Scan List in the Zone screen.

The compatibility of the previous and current scan mode:

* "R.Sel CH" is available only for Portable type transceivers. Select "Start CH" instead of "R. Sel CH" for Mobile type transceivers.

FNOTE:

To set Vote scan mode (Mode1), select "Voting" in Zone Type in the Zone Operation screen.

l Primary CH

Select the desired channel as a primary channel. The selected channel is monitored during priority scan.

Prio-A CH : The priority A channel is used as the primary channel.
Prio-B CH : The priority B channel is used as the primary channel.
Start CH : The scan start channel is used as the primary channel.
R.Sel CH : The selected channel by the rotary selector is used as the primary channel.
CH Number Select : The selected channel is used as the primary channel.


FNOTE:
R.Sel CH can be available only for Portable type transceivers and when "MR-CH" is selected in Rotary Selector in the Key & Display screen.



l Secondary CH

Select the desired channel as a secondary channel. The selected channel is monitored during priority scan.

The secondary channel is lower priority than primary channel.

Disable : The secondary channel is not used.
Prio-A CH : The priority A channel is used as the secondary channel.
Prio-B CH : The priority B channel is used as the secondary channel.
Start CH : The scan start channel is used as the secondary channel.
R.Sel CH : The selected channel by the rotary selector is used as the secondary channel.
CH Number Select : The selected channel is used as the secondary channel.

FNOTE:
R.Sel CH can be available only for Portable type transceivers and when "MR-CH" is selected in Rotary Selector in the Key & Display screen.

l TX CH

Select the desired channel as a transmission channel.

Last CH : Transmission is performed in the channel scan stopped last. If it is no last channel, the scan start channel is selected for transmission.
Prio-A CH : Transmission is performed in the priority A channel.
Prio-B CH : Transmission is performed in the priority B channel.
Start CH : Transmission is performed in the scan start channel.
R.Sel CH : Transmission is performed in the selected channel by the rotary selector.
CH Number Select : Transmission is performed in the selected channel.

FNOTE:
R.Sel CH can be available only for Portable type transceivers and when "MR-CH" is selected in Rotary Selector in the Key & Display screen.

l Talk Back

Turn the talk back function for transmission ON or OFF.
The function allows you to transmit a signal at the channel that the scan stopped last, when the transmission is performed during the scan stopping or the talk back timer* (after the resume timer has passed).

When "OFF" is selected, the channel selected in TX CH is always used for transmission.


* Talk back timer is set in Talk Back (Sec) in Scan Setting screen.

l TX Action

Select the scan action when transmission is performed during scanning.

Cancel Scan : Scan is cancelled and transmission is performed in the channel that is selected in TX CH.

If Talk Back is turned ON and transmission is performed during the scan stopping or the talk back timer, the signal is transmitted and the scan is canceled at the channel that the scan stopped last.

Pause Scan : Scan is paused until the signal disappears and then resumes after the resume timer* has passed.


* Resume timer is set in Resume (Sec) in Scan Setting screen.

l Cancel CH

Select the desired channel type that is selected when scan is cancelled (except for transmission.)

Start CH : The scan start channel is selected automatically.
Start CH/Talk Back : The scan start channel is selected automatically when scan is cancelled during scanning.

The channel scan stopped last is selected automatically when scan is cancelled during the scan stopping or the talk back timer (after the resume timer has passed).

R.Sel CH : The channel that is selected by the rotary selector is selected automatically.
R.Sel CH/Talk Back : The channel that is selected by the rotary selector is selected automatically when scan is cancelled during scanning.

The channel scan stopped last is selected automatically when scan is cancelled during the scan stopping or the talk back timer (after the resume timer has passed).

TX CH : The channel that is selected in TX CH is selected automatically.
TX CH/Talk Back : The channel that is selected in TX CH is selected automatically when scan is cancelled during scanning.

The channel scan stopped last is selected automatically when scan is cancelled during the scan stopping or the talk back timer (after the resume timer has passed).


FNOTE:
R.Sel CH and R.Sel CH/Talk Back can be available only for Portable type transceivers and when "MR-CH" is selected in Rotary Selector in the Key & Display screen.

l Text

Select the text indication capability from OFF, Text or Start CH during scan.

While the scan is pausing on a channel by receiving/transmitting a signal, the channel's text is indicated regardless of the setting.

OFF : The text indication is turned OFF.
Text : The text indication is turned ON. The channel's text that is programmed in Display Text as above is indicated during scan.
Start CH : The text indication is turned ON. The scan start channel's text is indicated during scan.


l PWR Save (For Portable type transceivers)

Turn the power save function ON and OFF during scan.

Total scanning speed is decreased when the function is activated.
 

Firetacoma

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Location
Boulder, CO
Scan Settings:

Watch: 5.00
Watch Unmatch: 5.00
Resume: 3.00
Talkback: 10.00
Fast scan: .020
Slow Scan: .700 (was .500, I just changed this, haven't tried it yet with this change)

Power on Scan: On
Backlight at Stop Scan: Off
Nuisance Delete: Off
Mode Dependent Scan: Off
Monitor Key Action: Cancel
Talk Back Time Beep: Off


SQL Level is at 4 (Dealer told me this was a good setting)

Thanks for all the replies so far, I am confident I'll get this figured out, but it sure is frustrating!
 

Firetacoma

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Messages
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Location
Boulder, CO
Ok, I programmed it with start channel as priority, .700 as my slow scan, still see activity on the activity bar, hear it on my portable, mobile doesn't stop scanning.

Also, I live very near the county repeater tower so the advice given months ago about being washed out probably doesn't apply. Plus this seems to happen no matter where I am. It doesn't get better or worse depending on location.
 

Firetacoma

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Jun 10, 2011
Messages
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Location
Boulder, CO
Sorry to flood this thread, but I seem to have found a positive result with the help of my dealer.

Fast scan: .100
Slow scan: .750

This resolved most of the issues... minor clipping of the beginning of transmissions, but at least I can hear SOMETHING now.

I guess the factory defaults leave something to be desired.
 
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