False readings on Tier 3 system sites

[bravo14]

I'm new on Tier 3 systems and I notice on the x36hp when a site pops up it shows 0. When I go dsdplus shows up different sites. When I went on a road trip in June and did some tests and used my 436hp and it shows site 0. I've been told there is no such thing is site 0 normally starts at 1.

Here is a system I'm building https://www.radioreference.com/apps/db/?sid=9138

I have noticed 1 freq that popped up in my area I don't hear anything as of yet. And that system has 5 bars still showing site 0. DSDPlus shows site 1.1

UPMan can you take a look into this? Thanks

 

[rbrtklamp2]

In the radio reference data it does in fact list a site 0 for that system. Are yiu sure you plugging the correct info into DSD? I have never heard of a system with a site 0 but there's a first time for everything I guess.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk

 

[bravo14]

In the radio reference data it does in fact list a site 0 for that system. Are yiu sure you plugging the correct info into DSD? I have never heard of a system with a site 0 but there's a first time for everything I guess.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk

When I use the 536hp it shows 0. When I go to DSDPlus shows L1-1.1 I updated that system a few times and some people told me Site 0 is not normal.

 

[Ubbe]

DSDplus always show the wrong net number and wrong site number. It will add one to the actual values for some reason. Uniden and Whistler show correct numberings.

/Ubbe

 

[slicerwizard]

So...

"In the radio reference data it does in fact list a site 0 for that system."

"Uniden and Whistler show correct numberings." (and a Uniden is showing site number zero)


Meanwhile, the official docs say site numbers start at one.

I'm curious - Ubbe, how do you know Uniden and Whistler are displaying correct values? What are you basing that statement on?

 

[bravo14]

So...

"In the radio reference data it does in fact list a site 0 for that system."

"Uniden and Whistler show correct numberings." (and a Uniden is showing site number zero)


Meanwhile, the official docs say site numbers start at one.

I'm curious - Ubbe, how do you know Uniden and Whistler are displaying correct values? What are you basing that statement on?

I don't know if it is a bug on uniden side. On Cap+ & Con+ are showing correct sites for what I seen so far.

 

[Ubbe]

I'm curious - Ubbe, how do you know Uniden and Whistler are displaying correct values? What are you basing that statement on?

The techs on the system here always refere to the sitenumbers that equals Uniden and Whistlers numbering.
This system seems to use most settings at default and Uniden and Whistler displays net 12 which I read is the default in some system setups and dsdplus says it is net 13.

/Ubbe

 

[slicerwizard]

This system seems to use most settings at default and Uniden and Whistler displays net 12 which I read is the default in some system setups and dsdplus says it is net 13.

The default for Hytera TIII networks is 13, not 12. Motorola Capacity Max TIII systems do not appear to have a default NID. What do you mean by "some system setups" default to 12? Which vendor uses NID 12 as the default?

 

[Ubbe]

TRBOnet users manual says that net number can be left at default 12.

/Ubbe

 

[bravo14]

Here is a snap shot of the screen. I just noticed it shows (TAIT) between Tlll & Site L1-1.1

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-ELTeAWsq75d3FsZXd6dkN4QW8/view

The freq is 451.0250

 

[slicerwizard]

TRBOnet users manual says that net number can be left at default 12.

12 is the default CAI Network value, i.e. the default value that is sent over the air on TIII channels.

From the docs:

Large network NID range: 1-16
Small network NID range: 1-128
Tiny network NID range: 1-512

The first obviously uses a 4 bit field, the second, a 7 bit field, and the last, a 9 bit field.

4 bits can hold the values 0000 (0) through 1111 (15). In order to represent the NID range 1 through 16, the smallest value (0) would have to mean NID 1 and the largest value (15) would have to mean NID 16.

Same deal for the other network sizes.

So NID 13 would have to be represented by an over-the-air value of 12. So scanners see 12 and display a NID value of 12, when that OTA value of 12 really means 13. So scanners don't get it right.

When programming a system's NID, a system manager isn't given the option to use NID 0; the lowest accepted value is 1. And that goes out over the air as 0000 or 0000000 or 000000000, depending on the network model size. And scanners apparently would display that as NID 0, which is wrong.


And the same applies to site numbers. Site 1 would be sent as all zero bits and scanners call that site 0. Meanwhile, there is no such thing as site zero in a TIII system.

 

[jonwienke]

Essentially you are saying there is an offset of 1 between the binary value sent OTA and the actual site value.

 

[Ubbe]

So NID 13 would have to be represented by an over-the-air value of 12. So scanners see 12 and display a NID value of 12, when that OTA value of 12 really means 13. So scanners don't get it right.

It makes sense and you're probably right.

As I only hear techs refering to the site numbering, and not the users, they are probably refering to the
tecnical numbering and not the logical. It's probably what is shown on their radios display in monitor mode.

/Ubbe