Fantino+OPP=Encryption????

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Gymbag

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Just wondering how long it will take Commissioner Fantino to get the OPP radio system encrypted? We all now that encryption is ready and waiting for the OPP so will Julian just speed the process up. Look what he did when he was the Chief of London, basically bought the new radio system and just handed the bill to the police services board. Imagine what he can/will do with all of the provincial money he will have to spend.
 

polkaroo

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Enjoy it while it lasts. When it comes, it'll come. Unless you're Fantino's best buddy and give him some good words on behalf of a few scanner freaks as a special interest group, I highly doubt he really cares. Although to be honest, he has a much bigger issue than encryption on his hands right now.


Sorry, I'm just tired of all this fear-mongering "they sky is falling" that a few seem to be spreading. Yes it sucks for us listeners but it's just the natural evolution of radio technology. If you're truly passionate about it, then perhaps you can lead the battle and pursue some course of action to persuade the decision-makers down a different route?
 

jellotor

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I'd say let him sink his career handling Caledonia first. I don't recall him moving Toronto appreciably closer to complete encryption...

I concur with Polkaroo...IF encryption comes, WHEN it comes, you're SOL so why worry about it?
 

Gymbag

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The whole idea of the thread was not a "fear mongering" thing. I am an avid scanner listener and have been for the last 23 yrs. I am also an auxiliary police officer with a police service that does not have an encrypted radio system. I'm a HUGE beleiver in the encrypted radio for officer safety. It will be interesting thought to see how long it will take for Julian to switch to the encrypted radio system thats all. Beleive you me Julian Fantino will not "sink" his career on the Caledonia incident. There may be a few local politcians in Caledonia who's careers may get sunk in this falls election.
 

exkalibur

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Maybe he'll grow the balls to get those god d@mn indians out of there.

Anyway. He didn't move Toronto towards encryption because it would have meant a MASSIVE upgrade. The OPP are already very capable of encryption. All they have to do is install encryption modules in the cars and they're good to go.
 

mciupa

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Gymbag said:
Just wondering how long it will take Commissioner Fantino to get the OPP radio system encrypted? Imagine what he can/will do with all of the provincial money he will have to spend.
He may have to wait a bit. Even though the OPP budget is pushing $800 M , he still has to show fiscal responsiblity and accountability. I wish I could find a pie chart to see the spending breakdown.
The government is running a deficit and they have promised a balanced budget for 07/08.
I think the bean counters will be reining all sectors in as far as expenses go.
 

mciupa

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exkalibur said:
Maybe he'll grow the balls to get those god d@mn indians out of there.
Fantino may play hardball with them.:(
Interesting side bar is that Commisioner Boniface won theOrder of Ontario for her work with the First Nations people when she was the Regional Commander for Western Ontario.

I'm suprised that she couldn't mediate the problem.:confused:
 
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jellotor

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Gymbag said:
The whole idea of the thread was not a "fear mongering" thing. I am an avid scanner listener and have been for the last 23 yrs. I am also an auxiliary police officer with a police service that does not have an encrypted radio system. I'm a HUGE beleiver in the encrypted radio for officer safety. It will be interesting thought to see how long it will take for Julian to switch to the encrypted radio system thats all. Beleive you me Julian Fantino will not "sink" his career on the Caledonia incident. There may be a few local politcians in Caledonia who's careers may get sunk in this falls election.
With respect, every time someone posts a thread asking about encryption, no matter how intelligently, fear mongering comes as part of the deal.

And as for Caledonia...Fantino may *want* to play hardball but he serves at the convenience of a premier who prefers to sit on the fence. I suspect we can probably agree to disagree here but the fact is that regardless of the legality or fairness of what's been going on in Caledonia both sides are heavily mobilized with large groups of (voting) supporters. It's a no-win situation in many ways and it will be difficult for a commissioner to chose between having an opinion and making it known (Fantino) and shutting up and doing what is asked by the politicians (Boniface).

Let me just finish by saying that I've been down there and I've had incidents where I felt like I was being targetted. My coworkers were assaulted and while I do not condone lawlessness both sides have a reason to distrust the motives of the police brass up to this point. Good luck to Fantino...he's got a big job ahead of him.
 

mikewazowski

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Wasn't Fantino the Chief of York Region PS for a while? Don't think they're encrypted.

Seems like Chicken Little is alive and well on this forum.
 

exkalibur

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hemi - once they purchase the initial encryption modules for the radios, there's no extra costs involved. A digital system will, inherently, support encryption. DES modules aren't cheap, but they aren't super expensive either. The OPP already have a number of DES-OFB (although they only use DES-XL) modules for their surveillance guys, so encryption is certainly not unknown to the OPP/BMR.

The problem with Toronto or York going encrypted is that their system isn't redaily capable of it. They're on an analog system with Spectras and MCS2000's. While encryption modules DO exist for those models, analog encryption sounds terrible, not to mention all the back-end upgrades that might need to be done (assuming they're not already there). Digital encryption has zero audio degredation. It's pretty bad on analog.
 

slipslope

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It may be expensive for Toronto to upgrade, but how much time/money is it costing now when Officers must use their cell phones for sensitive information when the in-car computers are down/not working and the radio is not secure? Already there are those 19200-series talkgroups that are using encryption. If they can do that, won't the system support other encrypted/digital TGs?
 

mikewazowski

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exkalibur said:
The problem with Toronto or York going encrypted is that their system isn't redaily capable of it.
Toronto already has a system capable of digital encryption. Those new astro talkgroups that are popping up are already encrypted.

York is also capable of (and has run) encryption on their system as well. It's the older securenet flavour of encryption so it's not the greatest sounding but that's far from calling the system not readily capable of doing it.
 

exkalibur

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Mike_Oxlong said:
Toronto already has a system capable of digital encryption. Those new astro talkgroups that are popping up are already encrypted.

York is also capable of (and has run) encryption on their system as well. It's the older securenet flavour of encryption so it's not the greatest sounding but that's far from calling the system not readily capable of doing it.

Yep. I was refering to them switching to 100% encryption for all their regular operations. As it is now, there are only some 300 or so radios that support the ASTRO encryption on the TPS system. To switch everyone over to that would be very expensive, and I don't see them using analog securenet, as it sounds TERRIBLE.

Same story with York. They're certainly capable of it, but to upgrade all the radios would be hugely expensive. At least the OPP are already capable, it's just a slight programming change and an encryption module.


With all that said, I doubt we'll see the OPP use full time encryption anytime soon.
 

mikewazowski

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TPS can't use Securenet, the system won't support it.

Their radios must be coming due for a swapout soon and I'm sure they'll go with something digital capable.
 

xlq771

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Has there ever been an officer who was hurt or killed as a direct result of an attacker using a scanner to ambush the officer?

I realize that there are times when an officer needs encryption, but I am concerned that some police officers may use encryption to hide unlawfull acts that they commit. For example, numerous times I have heard officers on OPP Intelligence on Fleetnet encrypted talkgroups in the clear (encryption feature not turned on) using foul, vulgar language to describe what sexual acts they would like do do with an attractive female that happens to walk past. That is a Criminal Code offence.

I feel that the risk of bad police officers using encryption to hide illegal activity far outweighs the risk of an officer being hurt. More officers face criminal charges every year, than are killed in the line of duty.

Someone has to police the police, and the past has proven that other cops can't be trusted to do the job.
 
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