Fayetteville 800 motorola system

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GB1952

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$4.1 MILLION UPGRADE IN COMMUNICATIONS APPROVED FOR FAYETTEVILLE POLICE RADIO SYSTEM IT WILL NOT BE VIPER,IT WILL HAVE ACCESS TO DURHAMS CENTERAL HARDWARE FOR THE SAME RADIO SYSTEM,FAYETTEVILLE WILL STILL USE THEIR OWN RADIO EQUIPMENT AND TOWERS.FAYETTEVILLE WILL PAY DURHAM $200,000 A YEAR FOR 10 YEARS TO USE ITs CENTERAL HARDWARE.
 

mhodgson

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And it would have cost nothing in "fees" to have plugged into VIPER's P25 controller and then been able to roam seamlessly across all of Cumberland and surrounding counties, not to mention scan and emergency ID capabilites......

M
 

wt

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They (Fayetteville) were on board until Vorhees came to town. We are still going to have to keep two radios on in our cars to hear what's going on in Cumberland County! So much for progress in interop!
 

KE4ZNR

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They (Fayetteville) were on board until Vorhees came to town. We are still going to have to keep two radios on in our cars to hear what's going on in Cumberland County! So much for progress in interop!
Which makes no sense. Considering that Cumberland County on VIPER is the same
type of radio system that Fayetteville is using (Motorola). Both systems should be able to be programmed into one radio.
Heck, I have 5 different Motorola systems in my Motorola XTS5K and have no problem switching between them.
This sounds to me like a failure of whoever is responsible for programming the radios
and not on Mr Vorhees (who is an intelligent guy).
Marshall KE4ZNR
 

robkermit

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What is so special about the Durham P25 server that VIPER won't be able to provide once it completes the project 25 upgrade?
 

KE4ZNR

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What is so special about the Durham P25 server that VIPER won't be able to provide once it completes the project 25 upgrade?
1) Durham is on a P25 upgrade path that will allow Fayetteville to connect sooner rather than later.
2) Durham will have a P25 7.13 platform infrastructure while VIPER will be operating on a P25 7.11 platform.
3) Durham will have more than enough "real estate" (RIDs and TGIDs) for all users (especially Fayetteville) now and in the future long term.
4) Durham's Communications Maintenance Division already has a good working relationship with Fayetteville and is aware of Fayetteville's needs and wants.

Let me please make one thing clear: THIS IS STILL A PARTNERSHIP IN THE WORKS. Fayetteville has made the decision that they wish to work with Durham in this endeavor. There is still a lot that has to happen before this is an official legal partnership.
As the article notes:
The agreement with Durham is tentative. If it's not approved by Durham officials, Voorhees said, Fayetteville would have to buy its own central hardware for $1.7 million, which would be in addition to the $4.1 million upgrade.
I know this appears to be a little bit unusual partnership from the outside.
This is all I can say at this time. As always my comments are mine only and do not reflect the opinions of anyone else other than myself.

Marshall KE4ZNR
 

wt

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Fayetteville PD trunked system

Which makes no sense. Considering that Cumberland County on VIPER is the same
type of radio system that Fayetteville is using (Motorola). Both systems should be able to be programmed into one radio.
Heck, I have 5 different Motorola systems in my Motorola XTS5K and have no problem switching between them.
This sounds to me like a failure of whoever is responsible for programming the radios
and not on Mr Vorhees (who is an intelligent guy).
Marshall KE4ZNR
Marshall,

It's not a programming issue, its a state of mind here...we have both "systems" in the same radio, but you can't listen to both at the same time as you could if FPD and surrounding agencies were all on VIPER. In this day of shrinking budgets, a lot of units are using a portable only, which means they have to park on their system and cannot hear the other. Unless the guys from Moto are leading me astray, I have found no way to listen to both (scan) systems at the same time on my portable. So I carry an old MTS2000 clipped on my seat organizer and my new portable in a pro clip mount on the console, just to hear FPD on their system and all of the stuff I need for work on VIPER. When FPD makes their jump to this new system, everyone here will still be in the same position they are now...so technology progress, yes...interop progress...no.

I made this same statement to a high-ranking official in the PD here, was told it "didn't matter, we don't work with them anyway, so we don't listen to them".

As a 33 year LE veteran, a Chief, and a veteran Federal TFO, I find it unacceptable for a region that is so incredibly busy and violent to not be moving toward more radio-interoperability with the agencies that surround them. I've worked all over the State, including Durham, and not being able to talk to the local agency/officers is always a handicap. When the SHTF, I don't want to have to start selecting zones and making major shifts in where I am parked on my portable radio to get help, and I darn sure want the deputy sitting in the parking lot of the convenient store behind which I am getting my butt kicked to be able to hear me calling for help!

This doesn't have anything to do with Durham...great agency and the guys I know at Motorola and beyond say you guys have a pretty good radio shop, too ;) ! Not an indictment of Vorhees' intelligence, just disappointed that he is supporting (unknowingly to him?) the Fayetteville/Cumberland County separatist attitude of exclusivity instead of interoperability!

Bill
 

mhodgson

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VIPER P25 Migration

Marshall, one comment to your breakdown of Durham vs VIPER in relation to P25.

When the state entered into its agreement with Motorola to purchase and install the additional P25 controller, the release at that time was 7.11 and indeed that release is where we are today. One has to take in to consideration though that simply paying to purchase subsequent releases when the system hasn't gone live (beyond the local sites and Duke) that it would fiscally irresponsible for the state to take those steps until the most advantageous time in the overall P25 system migration. We anticipate the conversion to P25 occuring on or about 30 June 2014 statewide and on the day we convert, indeed we will be 7.11...however an upgrade will be rapidly forthcoming thereafter. With this said, the release that would be available at that point in time would be 7.14...however since January 1, 2015 will bring 7.15's availability, thats likely where we will move to next. Given the time frame of say, Fayetteville's migration to P25, I think that there is a strong possibility that the state will be at a higher revision when the actual go live date arrives. This will certainly be the case with some other strategic partnerships that are in the works as well both for complete system upgrades as well as wireline console connectivity.

As for the ID capacity issue, one of the "devils in the details" issues all along with locally owned systems is their desire to equip each and every radio with a neighboring stand alone system and/or VIPER ID since most users require the ability to work "at home" and "on the road". With the increased capacity that 7.11 provides and knowing that future releases may look to even larger numbers of subscribers, this has been VIPER's primary interest in moving to P25...to gain the ability to serve more and more users. We have been extremely fortunate, and are very thankful for the willingness of some of the non-resident users to in essence "return to the pot" some of their VIPER ID's to meet the needs of others during the past 18 months, however our committment is and always has been to afford those users P25 ID's to meet the needs of their emergency responders once we migrate to P25.


M
 

fcfd988

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Marshall,

Unless the guys from Moto are leading me astray, I have found no way to listen to both (scan) systems at the same time on my portable.

Bill
I currently have our department's XTS2500's and XTL5000's programmed to scan VIPER and the local SmartZone 4.1 system. Works just fine........

Wes
 

GB1952

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I monitor fay 800 and viper i have not caught any traffic between the sheriff dept or hwy patrol with the current 800 system,but i do monitor traffic between the fire depts on viper
 

wt

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I currently have our department's XTS2500's and XTL5000's programmed to scan VIPER and the local SmartZone 4.1 system. Works just fine........

Wes
Wes,

we have the same radios and they do not scan both systems simultaneously...I'm not saying the can't, just that they don't. Maybe the radios have the capability...

Fayetteville's TRS is a Smartnet II system, maybe that is the reason we're not able to scan VIPER and their system simultaneously...Marshall or Mike H might be able to answer that; my days running a Comm Center and system are long past and I'm just a user now...no hand in the management side.

Bill
 

Quantar22

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Wes,

we have the same radios and they do not scan both systems simultaneously...I'm not saying the can't, just that they don't. Maybe the radios have the capability...

Fayetteville's TRS is a Smartnet II system, maybe that is the reason we're not able to scan VIPER and their system simultaneously...Marshall or Mike H might be able to answer that; my days running a Comm Center and system are long past and I'm just a user now...no hand in the management side.

Bill
You can not scan two trunk systems at the same time with one radio without deaffiliations. A radio has to be affiliated with the system in order to hear traffic on the talkgroup that is selected. If they are affiliated on Viper on TG # XXXXX they will only hear traffic on the Viper system at that time. They will hear any TG's that are in their scan list on the same site that they are affiliated with on Viper only. The same is true for any other trunk system that the radio has a valid system programmed in with a valid system ID. A breakdown would be like this if you desired to scan between systems.

Radio affiliates to Viper on TG # XXXXX..... scans TG # XXXXX... deaffiliates from Viper.... Affiliates to Fayetteville TG # XXXXY.... Scans TG # XXXXY... deaffiliates from Fayetteville.. Repeat etc.

If a radio is in scan on two separate systems it stands the possibility of missing traffic on either system. This is not a good thing so it really is never suggested to scan between systems.
 

KE4ZNR

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Quantar is correct :)

One other feature that is lost when you scan more than one system in a Motorola radio
is the 2 level Priority Monitor feature.

Most public safety agencies in the county in which I work use the Priority Monitor
feature to make sure they don't miss traffic on their main dispatch talkgroup.
Here is a pic of how a radio setup looks in Motorola's CPS Programming software when using the Priority Monitor feature:


Now here is how the software looks when using the Multi-System Scan feature:


Notice how the Priority 1 and Priority 2 fields are grayed out and not selectable.
This is why we usually don't program Public Safety radios for Multi-system scan.

Marshall KE4ZNR
 

jsncrso

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Dare county has it's own P25 system separate from VIPER, yet we are able to (for the most part) seamlessly interop with VIPER radios.

Pretty much everyone here is glad we went with our own system instead of VIPER. We are able to control our system the way we want and aren't at the mercy of things that otherwise would be out of our control.

Interop is extremely important here as we have to have close communications with both local, state, and federal law enforcement agencies. In fact, the P25 sheriff and town police dispatch channels are simulcast on VIPER . Dare P25 radios are also able to talk between VIPER radios as the systems are patched at Dare Central. 99% of the time, this is done by Dare Central assigning one of 16 designated public safety interop channels that are both programmed into both P25 and VIPER radios.

Interop would be more seamless if channels weren't so hard to find on the radios (hence why the PS interop channels are used most often as the names are the same on both systems). It works very well here for the most part.
 

GB1952

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I may have found the freqs for the fay p-25 upcoming system of course no traffic but will post if i monitor anything.
 
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