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FCC GROL Education Options (and career tips)

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CopperWhopper67

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Hello all!

I am gearing up to try and start career in radio communications, and am looking to get my GROL certification. However, I do not just want to memorize the test questions for obvious reasons, and would like to genuinely understand the material not only as it relates to the test, but to professional radio as a whole. I have been having trouble finding resources to accomplish that, so I am coming to the forums for recommendations. Also, any tips for someone wishing to enter this industry would be greatly appreciated!

Thank you,

-CH
 

CopperWhopper67

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What type of radio communications? GROL is only required for a few specific things.
Ideally I want to work on public safety systems. Subscriber work, infrastructure, mobile installs... stuff like that. I was recently able to take a tour of my county's radio shop at our Sheriff's Office, and really enjoyed the environment and would like to go in that direction for now.
 

mmckenna

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Your location shows "Northern California", so you should contact these guys:
David Byrd runs Elkins and they do a great job. I took the GROL course from them a few years ago. It's a couple of days of training, and the instructor I had was an ex-USAF guy that really knew his stuff. Not only did he teach the basics, but he gave real world examples, as well as some USAF stories that kept the class interesting.
I won't lie, I'm not great at the maths, but some of that math stuff really made my brain hurt.

They do the course out in Tamales CA. It's an out of the way little town on the coast, but they've got a training room there that's located at the little hotel. Worked out well for me. I was able to drive up there in a few hours, spent a few nights and head home. The course includes a discount on the hotel rate.

It's not a full on deep dive into the subject material. It assumes you have some radio knowledge. It's not a "ham cram" type session, either. Sort of somewhere in between. It was what I was looking for.
You can buy GROL study guides, but they are similar to ham radio study guides as they give you some of the info and help you memorize the test questions.

The GROL is useful if you are looking to get into the industry. Many require it, even though an actual GROL isn't required for the work. It's sort of a "I know the basics" proof of knowledge thing.
BDA design companies usually require a GROL.
PG&E radio shop used to require it to work for them.
Many government agencies will have it listed as a requirement "or equivalent"
If you are going to be working with marine or aircraft radio systems, a GROL is required.
But other than that, it's just a thing that some put on the job requirements.
It certainly won't hurt to have it. You may find that you never use it, though.
For me at work, it's mostly about having a proof of knowledge and adds some "street cred". My employer doesn't require it, but they do require a certain amount of training per year and will fund it, so I was able to get it fully paid for.

As for getting in the industry….
There's a lot of competition as radio shops disappear. Most radio guys tend to be older, so some are just retiring.
When jobs get posted, there are often a ton of people apply, but most are not qualified. Having some proof of knowledge will be required if you want to be taken seriously. A GROL won't necessarily do that, but it may get your resume looked at.

As someone new to the industry, it's very unlikely you are going to walk in the door and immediately be programming up public safety radios, building out radio systems, etc.
New guys will often get put in the install bay working under a more experienced tech. That will mean running wiring in vehicles, installing equipment under guidance, etc. Site work will be closely supervised by a more experienced tech until they know you.

If I was looking to get into the industry now:
Sure, I'd get my GROL, but that isn't enough.
You absolutely need some solid IT skills. Like Cisco certifications. You'll need to know how to build out IP networks, routers, all that stuff. Not home router programming, you need industrial IP knowledge.
Tower climbing certifications might boost your chances. A Comtrain certification might help you: Comtrain USA – Tower Safety and Rescue, Fall Protection, Competent Rigging, Online Classes
Ham radio license won't get you much. It's sort of a given in the industry that if you are doing this sort of work, you would be able to pass a ham test in your sleep. Many of us have our ham tickets, but don't expect it to be a foot in the door for you. Hams don't have the best reputation in the industry. When you get out to shared tower sites (ham stuff at commercial towers), you'll see what I mean.

Be ready to work, get dirty, long hours, missing lunch, dinner, etc. 24x7 call out, lack of sleep goes with the job in many cases.

If you are looking for a government job (state/county/city), you'll need to have a clean record. If you are going to be touching stuff in PSAP's, you'll likely need a background check. Law enforcement agencies and PSAPs get audited by the state and feds periodically. They have to prove that people have been checked. Our PD chief, many many years ago, wanted to make sure I had been cleared. Since there wasn't a POST background check for "radio guy", they decided that since I spent time in dispatch, I should have the same background check as them. I had to do a 30 something page questionnaire, finger prints, financial check, background investigation, came and visited all my neighbors and friends, college/HS transcripts, and a bunch of other stuff. So, if you are going in the direction of government work, make sure you are clean.


Locally, our county shop tends to hire guys from the auto dealers service departments. They want guys who know their way around cars and can do a proper install job. That's where they start. While they are doing installs, they get trained on the rest of the systems. A lot of training comes from manufacturers, or on the job. Eventually they get moved up into bench tech positions, working in the field, etc. It takes time to move up...

It's great work, and I absolutely love my job. It's seriously hard work, and the responsibility places on me are pretty huge. The pay is good, but I work for every penny I get.
But, make sure you are ready for it. It's not a walk in the park. I'm still waiting for my cushy government job….
 

mmckenna

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Ideally I want to work on public safety systems. Subscriber work, infrastructure, mobile installs... stuff like that. I was recently able to take a tour of my county's radio shop at our Sheriff's Office, and really enjoyed the environment and would like to go in that direction for now.

Where are you located, exactly? If you want to PM me the info, that's cool. Might be able to help if you are local.
 

MTS2000des

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LMR is in a transition period. What mmckenna gave you is solid advice. I'd add that having familiarity with LTE/5G/WAN and new emerging tech like LTE integration to LMR is not a bad augmentation. GROL will give you a solid basis for all things RF, but the IP ones and zeroes are what drive RF these days, with broadband being smashed into the middle. A well rounded skill set is invaluable, as is a desire to take initiative and solve problems.
 

CopperWhopper67

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LMR is in a transition period. What mmckenna gave you is solid advice. I'd add that having familiarity with LTE/5G/WAN and new emerging tech like LTE integration to LMR is not a bad augmentation. GROL will give you a solid basis for all things RF, but the IP ones and zeroes are what drive RF these days, with broadband being smashed into the middle. A well rounded skill set is invaluable, as is a desire to take initiative and solve problems.
Thank you for the info,

I have some IT experience and education; it is what I was originally going to college for until COVID came to town. But a lot if it is stuff I haven't seen in a while, so I will definitely brush up.
 

mmckenna

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A well rounded skill set is invaluable, as is a desire to take initiative and solve problems.

Yeah, the &#!* that's NOT radio that I have to deal with:
HVAC
Power
More HVAC
dealing with locks/access (Breaking and Entering should be in my job description)
Generators
Battery systems
Even moar HVAC!
Light carpentry
Fixing stuff. <— anything, you name it, when they don't know who to call, they call you.
Driving up access roads that were last maintained in the 1970's.
Off road vehicle recovery
Mechanic
Light welding
Fabrication
Cleaning
Grounds maintenance
Sleeping in weird places.

Probably the biggest skills that get overlooked, but are super important:
Customer service skills. You gotta deal with pissed off cops, 911 dispatchers, fire fighters, general public. No one is happy, everyone is stressed, everyone wants their stuff fixed NOW.
Written and verbal communications. You need to document a lot of stuff. You need to be able to communicate complex technical information to other techs. You'll also need to be able to take complex technical info and make it easy for non radio people to understand.
 

mmckenna

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I have some IT experience and education; it is what I was originally going to college for until COVID came to town. But a lot if it is stuff I haven't seen in a while, so I will definitely brush up.

As soon as you learn it, they change it.
That's OK, you'll have the basics. A good IT guy will go far in the radio industry. I hired a young guy a few years ago because I needed more IP help. He does a lot of the server stuff, router configs, firewall, interfacing with our IP network engineers, virtual infrastructure, etc.
 

prcguy

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I was working in aerospace and applied for a maintenance position in the satellite broadcast industry around 1996. I had a lot of knowledge and some experience in satellite stuff but nothing tangible to show in an interview. But I did have a GROL and that put me over the edge and in a great job that let to an engineering position that I retired from 18yrs later.

Yes you should have more credentials but get the GROL out of the way, even if you don't understand the answer to every question. That is something you can spend time on later.
 

CopperWhopper67

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Yeah, the &#!* that's NOT radio that I have to deal with:
HVAC
Power
More HVAC
dealing with locks/access (Breaking and Entering should be in my job description)
Generators
Battery systems
Even moar HVAC!
Light carpentry
Fixing stuff. <— anything, you name it, when they don't know who to call, they call you.
Driving up access roads that were last maintained in the 1970's.
Off road vehicle recovery
Mechanic
Light welding
Fabrication
Cleaning
Grounds maintenance
Sleeping in weird places.

Probably the biggest skills that get overlooked, but are super important:
Customer service skills. You gotta deal with pissed off cops, 911 dispatchers, fire fighters, general public. No one is happy, everyone is stressed, everyone wants their stuff fixed NOW.
Written and verbal communications. You need to document a lot of stuff. You need to be able to communicate complex technical information to other techs. You'll also need to be able to take complex technical info and make it easy for non radio people to understand.
That sounds good to me.

My dad is a General Contractor with a C20 endorsement I have done lots of electrical, HVAC, carpentry, etc with him. I can fix a lot of stuff! I have a decent amount of automotive experience and can weld too.

Also, I did theatrical lighting and sound, and set building in college so I am used to 12-16 hour days working in hot/cold cramped places.

I will be ready for a wide variety of challenges. And I like variety.
 

CopperWhopper67

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I was working in aerospace and applied for a maintenance position in the satellite broadcast industry around 1996. I had a lot of knowledge and some experience in satellite stuff but nothing tangible to show in an interview. But I did have a GROL and that put me over the edge and in a great job that let to an engineering position that I retired from 18yrs later.

Yes you should have more credentials but get the GROL out of the way, even if you don't understand the answer to every question. That is something you can spend time on later.
What other creds do you reccomend?
 

prcguy

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I worked in commercial 2-way and owned a repeater business in the 80s and 90s but I'm not up on current credentials. A GROL used to trump most of the industry credentials in my time. Another thing you might consider is the satellite broadcast industry, the pay is higher than the radio side and lots of radio type smarts transfer easy to satellite. There are satellite teleports in Napa and other towns in northern Cal, not sure exactly where you are.

What other creds do you reccomend?
 

mmckenna

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What other creds do you reccomend?
Those are the only electronics technician certification organizations that I know of that are still around. There may be more.

Yeah, CTA has some good stuff. Talk to @speedway_navigator he teaches classes for them, and you'll often find him wandering the isles at IWCE.

Any IT training you can score
Tower Climber will get you in stuff where others chicken out.
 

mmckenna

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That sounds good to me.

My dad is a General Contractor with a C20 endorsement I have done lots of electrical, HVAC, carpentry, etc with him. I can fix a lot of stuff! I have a decent amount of automotive experience and can weld too.

Also, I did theatrical lighting and sound, and set building in college so I am used to 12-16 hour days working in hot/cold cramped places.

I will be ready for a wide variety of challenges. And I like variety.

There ya go. I'd hire you based on that.

With college, GROL, Manufacturer training, all the other stuff, probably a good 65% of what I do I actually learned in high school shop class.

You'd be surprised how many people don't know which end of the screwdriver to use. Being the guy that can fix just about anything will eventually put you in a good place. It'll take time for them to learn what you know, and to trust you, but once that happens, you're golden.

No one needs a radio guy that just has college/book learnin'. Like I said above, the crap I have to do that has nothing to do with radio is just downright amazing sometimes.
 

kb4mdz

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Cary, NC
Yeah, the &#!* that's NOT radio that I have to deal with:
HVAC
Power
More HVAC
dealing with locks/access (Breaking and Entering should be in my job description)
Generators
Battery systems
Even moar HVAC!
Light carpentry
Fixing stuff. <— anything, you name it, when they don't know who to call, they call you.
Driving up access roads that were last maintained in the 1970's.
Off road vehicle recovery
Mechanic
Light welding
Fabrication
Cleaning
Grounds maintenance
Sleeping in weird places.

Probably the biggest skills that get overlooked, but are super important:
Customer service skills. You gotta deal with pissed off cops, 911 dispatchers, fire fighters, general public. No one is happy, everyone is stressed, everyone wants their stuff fixed NOW.
Written and verbal communications. You need to document a lot of stuff. You need to be able to communicate complex technical information to other techs. You'll also need to be able to take complex technical info and make it easy for non radio people to understand.

All of the glamour of a radio or TV station engineer, with none of their usual perks like working with pretty people, right?
 

MUTNAV

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Yeah, the &#!* that's NOT radio that I have to deal with:
HVAC
Power
More HVAC
dealing with locks/access (Breaking and Entering should be in my job description)
Generators
Battery systems
Even moar HVAC!
Light carpentry
Fixing stuff. <— anything, you name it, when they don't know who to call, they call you.
Driving up access roads that were last maintained in the 1970's.
Off road vehicle recovery
Mechanic
Light welding
Fabrication
Cleaning
Grounds maintenance
Sleeping in weird places.

Probably the biggest skills that get overlooked, but are super important:
Customer service skills. You gotta deal with pissed off cops, 911 dispatchers, fire fighters, general public. No one is happy, everyone is stressed, everyone wants their stuff fixed NOW.
Written and verbal communications. You need to document a lot of stuff. You need to be able to communicate complex technical information to other techs. You'll also need to be able to take complex technical info and make it easy for non radio people to understand.
I have to agree, but at least where I was, modify a few things. The tower climbing and buddy rescue was important where I was, also (where I was) you can combine power, generators, battery systems, while adding UPS's (both understanding specs, how they work, and common maintenance), and the (very popular with this site) GROUNDING part of everything. I looked at the qualifications for the career I was in previously, and they added Project Planning into the mix of things they would like you to be able to do, or at least understand exactly what is going on.

Thanks
Joel
 

BMDaug

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This is a great thread! I’m somewhat looking to do the same thing here in Colorado. Background in IT and audio engineering in college… did QA/QC for a high end audio equipment designer and was an in-house systems integrator at a large venue for 14 years. Really familiar with all sorts of power systems from renewables to gensets and battery backup.

Was looking at the audio engineering path, but the real estate market is making it impossible to find an affordable facility of appropriate size. I’ve also realized that I enjoy the installation and integration of the systems I implement as much or more than operating the installed system…

@CopperWhopper67 Thanks again for starting this. Variety is my favorite aspect of any job. I’m right there with you on that!
@mmckenna That’s a lot of insight. It’s really encouraging seeing your list of skills!!

I’m starting on a different path with perhaps the same eventual outcome, but I went ahead and started a side business programming commercial radios just to get in the game. These are mostly simple analog setups with older equipment, but there are a number of potential clients in the valley that just need a handful of channels programmed into decade old hardware and have been sending radios to the front range just for that… I’m also starting to work with local site owners to find potential sites for some of those commercial users.

My point is that there are a lot of ways to break in, you just have to know the local market and find a starting point. That’s part of my plan for the ‘street cred’ aspect. Just showing a solid resume with real world experience. I don’t know… I’m just throwing things out there that might give you more ideas.

Good luck and great thread!!

-B
 
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