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FCC Identifier regulations

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apx7000xe

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If this is not in the proper forum please move it. What are the regulations for the identifiers on public safety frequencies? We transmit an identifier every 30 minutes on our fire dispatch channel and we have seen a drop countywide in response from firefighters because they turn their pagers off because the Morse code is so annoying. What are some ways around this?


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Mr_Boh

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Why are they just not switching their pagers to an alert mode and not a monitor mode? It’s like having a leak in a faucet and shutting off the water in the whole house and not at the valve under the sink.


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apx7000xe

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I didn't think about that part. But also another concern is that the Morse code is overriding all other communications and I feel that in a mayday situation, that could be very dangerous

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Mr_Boh

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Shouldn’t. By default any automated station identifier I have seen in the past couple 20 years or so will automatically stop if transmission is received and specifically waits several seconds after last transmission to make sure it doesn’t cut into a conversation.


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apx7000xe

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It may have been set up wrong. Numerous times I've heard the dispatcher or personnel get cut off mid sentence

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DaveNF2G

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Your problem is a local configuration problem. The solution is to fix the identifier setup. That is the responsibility of the radio shop that maintains your system.

I'm guessing the firefighters are not turning off pagers but rather scanners and other receivers.

Another way to set up an identifier so as not to bother people with open monitors is to put CTCSS or DCS on all transmissions except the identification. Properly equipped receivers will not hear it.
 

SteveC0625

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Your problem is a local configuration problem. The solution is to fix the identifier setup. That is the responsibility of the radio shop that maintains your system.

I'm guessing the firefighters are not turning off pagers but rather scanners and other receivers.

Another way to set up an identifier so as not to bother people with open monitors is to put CTCSS or DCS on all transmissions except the identification. Properly equipped receivers will not hear it.
CTCSS or DCS doesn't work on some of the more popular brands of pagers, especially Motorola so anyone using their pager as a monitor could be frustrated/annoyed by the CW.

But I do agree that it's much more likely that they're turning off scanners, etc.

+1 on the contracted radio shop's responsibility in this.
 

freddaniel

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An authorized person at the Licensee can request from the Commission a waiver from station identification. It might be granted if your Licensee is the only one using the frequency in your local area. As a government agency, it cost nothing to ask in writing.
 
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@ freddaniel

Can you cite an example so I can have something to show clients?
I seem to remember the FCC is looking at station IDs again with DMR coming online.

What's odd is that a user can give a call sign for a mobile only nation wide license and meet the requirements for the whole country with a maybe 1 mile range from a portable.
 

freddaniel

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Jay,
As you know, station identification is mostly for enforcement purposes, should a station inadvertently cause interference. Anyone hearing the station can then identify the source of the interference.
Obtaining a waiver for station identification is possible when the station can easily be identified by some other means, such as being the only licensee on the frequency for more than 50 miles. [only a guess]
The Commission staff has adopted policy for this and many other issues, but policy is not normally published.

The original post was from Martin, GA, a town of less than 400 persons, about 50 miles outside Atlanta. The likelihood of getting a waiver there would be much greater than at Pittsboro, IN due to the increased population and frequency reuse near Indianapolis. It all depends upon how easily the stations would be to identify, by means other than traditional station identification.

And yes, I have gotten station identification waivers in the past, for some systems with more than 50 locations. I am 74 now and retired, so I have no current examples to offer.

Someone who is serious about being in the Land Mobile business should develop a relationship with one or more FCC staff Engineers, by calling the FCC public information number and ask to speak to an Engineer. Ask important questions like this and keep their name and number for future questions and clarifications. In addition, visiting the Commission offices every few years to press the flesh and put a face to the voice on the telephone will also help.

Also, there are many retired FCC engineers and lawyers, who are private consultants, and will assist your business and clients, for a price.

Keep in mind, the FCC staff rarely sees or communicates with actual licensees, or service personnel, and mostly communicates with lawyers, who claim to represent licensees. The lawyers are often looked upon as hired-guns, and do not always represent the best interests of the licensees. This is why the radio users, licensees, and service personnel should develop independent relationships.

Good luck
 
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>>As you know, station identification is mostly for enforcement purposes, should a station inadvertently cause interference.

A local business doesn't ID on its repeaters, the plant manager said it bothered the users. I pointed out most repeaters will drop CTCSS and stop IDing if a user keys but they just didn't care.
 
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