FCC Invites Comments on ARRL Technician Enhancement Proposal
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n4fo
Member
I vote for Number 4!.........Help me learn more about the items I listed above..... wwhitby
I understand what you are saying, but disagree that the test is there to teach anything. There is nothing to stop anyone from pursuing their interests to the nth degree. Maybe the test can be a framework of study, but its sole purpose isn't to instruct anything.
I agree that the exams are antiquated, quaint, and seldom have test questions that address modern ham operating (or at least the last time I look'd.) For instance, when and/or does anyone today pull out their handy Smith chart and design an antenna ?
I will go back to my original (Post 84) premise that the test serve no other purpose than to insure the protection of the operator and the public by demonstrating a basic knowledge of electricity, laws and operating procedures. Once achieved (ie: Licensed) the newbie is free- and encouraged to-- to fill in their educational blanks.
But keep the exam meaningful and simple, like-
Question #21
To test to see if an AC power line is live, do the following:
1. Touch your tongue to the exposed terminals
2. Stick a kitchen knife in the socket and test for sparks
3. Get your friend to stick their tongue in that socket
4. All the above
5. None of the above
Okay, a bit facetious, but something along this line to separate the quick from the dead (literally.)
......... and No Smith Charts
Lauri
N4FO
- Joined
- Jun 13, 2018
- Messages
- 869
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...more "something for nothing"........... W5lz
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Hmmmmm.......... I disagree------- but after +320 Posts we are beating a dead horse here .....
Maybe its best at this juncture (for me at least)- to agree to disagree.........
.....................if you'all like I'll say you old timer's won; and I now happily collect my marbles and go home
_____________________________________________
(Meanwhile as Lauri goes off to fight other windmills, lets all sing along with her in this, the essence of
......................................."something for nothing..... (and your chicks** for free.......)"
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(...........Love Dire Straits.....)
Cheers !
Lauri
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** that does Not include Me !
and Yes !, I know, its Money for Nothing... but then I did play only their sanitized version.........
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...more "something for nothing"........... W5lz
.
.
Hmmmmm.......... I disagree------- but after +320 Posts we are beating a dead horse here .....
Maybe its best at this juncture (for me at least)- to agree to disagree.........
.....................if you'all like I'll say you old timer's won; and I now happily collect my marbles and go home
_____________________________________________
(Meanwhile as Lauri goes off to fight other windmills, lets all sing along with her in this, the essence of
......................................."something for nothing..... (and your chicks** for free.......)"
.
(...........Love Dire Straits.....
)Cheers !
Lauri
_____________________________________________________________
** that does Not include Me !
and Yes !, I know, its Money for Nothing... but then I did play only their sanitized version.........
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.
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If a Tech wants more HF privileges, they should upgrade to General.
Folks, we have a Politics forum and this isn't it.
Please post your political comments here: https://forums.radioreference.com/forums/politics.160/
Please post your political comments here: https://forums.radioreference.com/forums/politics.160/
prcguy
Member
Maybe the song should be "Ham radio license and your chicks for free". But for me that conjures up visions of male geeks that wouldn't know what to do with a girl, and it also precludes a percentage of females wanting a license....
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...more "something for nothing"........... W5lz
.
.
Hmmmmm.......... I disagree------- but after +320 Posts we are beating a dead horse here .....
Maybe its best at this juncture (for me at least)- to agree to disagree.........
.....................if you'all like I'll say you old timer's won; and I now happily collect my marbles and go home
_____________________________________________
(Meanwhile as Lauri goes off to fight other windmills, lets all sing along with her in this, the essence of
......................................."something for nothing..... (and your chicks** for free.......)"
.
(...........Love Dire Straits.....
Cheers !
Lauri
_____________________________________________________________
** that does Not include Me !
and Yes !, I know, its Money for Nothing... but then I did play only their sanitized version.........
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.
I have been licensed since April, and i have only used DMR so far. As of right now, that satisfies my needs. Not saying that i will never want to get on the hf bands, but my main goal was to be able to talk to anybody around the world, and DMR satisfies that for me. When the time comes and i want to expand my frequencies beyond that of the tech, i will take the general exam. But for now i am satisfied with the frequencies that i am allowed to talk on. I still have alot to learn, i figure it's like anything else, you never stop learning.
Sent from my LG-H931 using Tapatalk
Sent from my LG-H931 using Tapatalk
Sadly you just hit on what my exact fear was ages ago when IRLP, Echolink etc all started hitting the hobby.... I feared that apps and the internet would make it too easy to speak so far, and as a result, take most of the fun out of the hobby for new hams. I remember my first HF contact with an antenna I designed, back in the early 90's and no internet smart phone, or $149.00 DMR radio can ever replace that feeling, even to this day. I knew this day would come where people would write EXACTLY what you wrote, and to me, that's the beginning of the end of ham radio... because what follows are "I don't need to fight for antenna rights with my fellow hams, I can just use my DMR radio to speak to Russia", we start losing HF radio options cus no one buys them, very innovative companies like StepIR go out of business because there is no need for their product.
Everyone can deny it but we are in a crisis right now between a HUGE portion of our hobby going silent key and those generations behind it not having the interest to continue that technical, antenna, home build history..... it saddens me..... and while I mean no disrespect to no code techs, it was intended to be a gateway drug to the addiction that is REAL ham radio, not a way to be able to have a global FRS/GMRS radio while the rest of the hobby, that we all loved and fought for, for so many years... is allowed to die...... these new technologies may be the coolest thing to most of you, but just like there are several key items that are responsible for the massive increase in encryption in LE radios right now (of which I will not mention on here because I value my membership here), the same can be said for the nail going into the coffin of ham radio......
No disrespect intended.... just sad to finally see it in writing...... I for one am not looking forward to Field Day being standing in a field surrounded by a bunch of no code techs with DMR radios.
73
Jen
KB6JEN/VE7OTH (formerly VE7JOD/VK2WD)
It's simple. If you want more privileges all you have to do is show you have the required knowledge and take a test. The test really are not that difficult, IF you have the knowledge. If you don't have that knowledge then study a little bit and get it. Before you do that studying they all seem a bit intimidating. But that's only because you don't have the required knowledge, so get it.
Every bit of the griping seems to be because people don't want to learn, or do some studying. That's a very silly attitude! How you gonna get a drivers license without taking a test? All those test require studying to make you familiar with things you need to know and be able to do (sooner or later). What happens when you gripe about that? A lot of laughter mostly, and maybe a "grow up" comment or two? If you want it badly enough you will get it. Same with an Amateur radio license. Don't want to study or know what you should know? "Grow up". Then get the license.
I don't discuss politics.
Every bit of the griping seems to be because people don't want to learn, or do some studying. That's a very silly attitude! How you gonna get a drivers license without taking a test? All those test require studying to make you familiar with things you need to know and be able to do (sooner or later). What happens when you gripe about that? A lot of laughter mostly, and maybe a "grow up" comment or two? If you want it badly enough you will get it. Same with an Amateur radio license. Don't want to study or know what you should know? "Grow up". Then get the license.
I don't discuss politics.
While I share some of your angst about the state of our beloved hobby, I do have to ask how "no code techs" are all that different from "no code Generals" or even "no code Extra" for that matter?
I had to take and pass 13 wpm code, but honestly I had already begun the process of forgetting it while my dad drove us back to Ft. Myers from our testing at the Miami FCC Field Office! In the half-century since, not once have I used code. It just never floated my boat.
No matter how carefully you address the topic or say you mean no offense, it seems that the words "No Code Tech" are the new "3rd Rail", sigh...
What I meant by "No Code Tech" was as in "entrance level license/foot in the door" into the hobby, (thus my gateway drug comment), like we use to call Novice but we can drop the "No Code" part, the word Technician class suffices for the intent of my statement. It was common knowledge that the reason the Novice license had a tiny bit of HF privileges was to allow new people to get a taste of what was there to enjoy and that the real fun begins once you've upgraded to General, Extra etc... But now, with providing the entry level class, all the fun without the effort (via network radios etc), there's no reason nor desire to upgrade for all but a very small percentage. After all, some have no problem stating they really didn't want to be hams or talk around the world on antennas they built and tested anyways, they just wanted the license for their off road dune buggy radios, what we all use to have CB for.
The point I was trying to get across, quite poorly it appears is that by giving such world wide privileges to the entry level exam, how can we be surprised when a HUGE number don't bother going past that level, there's nothing to gain in the opinions of some of them, and we NEED them to get move past a portable on 5 watts, because so much of the hobby could be lost without us all fighting for it (see my previous comment re antenna restrictions, loss of band, advocacy etc). You all, or some of you who are ARRL members, you can see each month what the ARRL does for us in Washington as you read QST.... wipe it all out if all we are is DMR, echolink etc. in 30 years.
Read some of what our "next generation" are writing when they talk about what they consider "ham radio" now (sample quotes and link below).... I'm sorry but I disagree 1000% on statements like below as I would imagine anyone who ever enjoyed going into a Heathkit store as a kid would, or waited all year for the new Radio Shack catalog.... I mean the author of these comments no disparagement but what he's talking about is not the ham radio, in fact it's not even radio.... and truth be told, is very hard for me to read.. who gave the next generation the right or authority to change or challenge anything as it seems so clearly the intent in one of the statements below....
I'm sorry, but no one but a select few have contributed enough to have earned the right to change ham radio for the rest of us, (mind you, if you upgrade to an extra, you'll have a lot more street cred and perhaps your views will carry weight).
But I'd prefer to keep ham radio what we all know and love than what some 24 year old who last week was on his CB, this week took a tech test easily memorized and is now going to change what has been part of our lives and saved hundreds of others, and we have worked so hard to protect.---------------
Do Bands matter?
I have a suspicion that this is, in part at least, because bands and frequencies don’t matter so much these days. Domestic radio appliances are more about push buttons and screens that get you to your station instantly, rather than tuning dials with frequencies. It’s the end product that is important, not necessarily the manner in which it gets to you.
Traditional raison d’être of Ham Radio is waiting to be challenged to change and adapt, I don’t see this as a bad thing
The Internet is like one, almost infinitely wide, worldwide “band”, constantly open S9+40 to all countries 24/7 with few vagaries – and not just for voice, but for vision and other digital modes as well. Put like that, who wouldn’t want to use it? Would it actually matter what “band” you were (or were not) on, if there even were one?
As the hobby starts to come to terms with some of the implications of this, other issues then start to arise, such as…
- Do we need an exam any more to get a licence?
- Do we even need a licence?
---------------
Heck, an entry level ham license today permits you to talk places I was not permitted to, nor could have imagined being able to when I obtained my Novice ticket in 1986, that being because we've provided that entry level license full digital, DMR, network radio privileges etc... we may have shot ourselves in the foot....
Admit it or not, most of our motivations to upgrade were for more band privileges, higher power etc... well if you can talk around the world with a 5 watt portable, in this day and age where it's already hard enough to get the young crowd to get interested in outdoor activities like field day, we may have shot ourselves in the foot is all I'm saying.
Just my opinion, cus I care about the hobby and it's future, no disrespect intended toward code or no code... I answered the survey above based SOLELY on what I thought would help preserve what our hobby use to be..... technical ability, creating stuff, fixing stuff, building stuff and the excitement and frustration of counting the number of years till the next 11 year sun cycle..
All of that is replaced with a BaoFeng DMR portable.... and along with that joy, goes privileges. Most of them have died off, the replacements are on DMR now, they don't really need 75 meters, or the rest of 220 we took from them back 20 years ago for UPS who never bothered using it after all (how many of you remember that travesty?).... if we don't use it people, we're going to lose it.....
https://forums.radioreference.com/threads/ham-radio-dying-a-slow-miserable-death.319641/
Getting off my soap box, I could keep going all night... you get my point.... I care, and every silent key, is another nail in the coffin of our hobby.
Jen
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It timed out as I was checking for spelling mistakes and trying to add a short clip, below is where I was trying to add it, and it reads as follows "Some still consider the morse we know and love to be some sort evidence to demonstrate you've got commitment to the hobby. Like the statement or hate it, some feel that way and now that "No Code", has the same authority to change our hobby as the person who's 78 years old and worked for Drake for 30 years. Just keep in mind, that 3rd rail everyone is so eager to protect, may have more voting power than you imagined."
Getting off my soap box now.... thanks for listening folks... I don't hate DMR. Within the last month I paid almost $200.00 to add DMR decode to both my SDS100 and SDS200.... I just love Ham radio more. and most of all, I don't want Field Day 2025 to look like the below image (and no, I don't have a problem with Chinese people LOL it was the quickest to find with a very jealous for attention dog abusing me).
below is where I was trying to add it, and it reads as follows "Some still consider the morse we know and love to be some sort evidence to demonstrate you've got commitment to the hobby. Like the statement or hate it, some feel that way and now that "No Code", has the same authority to change our hobby as the person who's 78 years old and worked for Drake for 30 years. Just keep in mind, that 3rd rail everyone is so eager to protect, may have more voting power than you imagined."Getting off my soap box now.... thanks for listening folks... I don't hate DMR. Within the last month I paid almost $200.00 to add DMR decode to both my SDS100 and SDS200.... I just love Ham radio more.
and most of all, I don't want Field Day 2025 to look like the below image (and no, I don't have a problem with Chinese people LOL it was the quickest to find with a very jealous for attention dog abusing me).
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One of the biggest reasons DMR is exploding is the cost factor. You can get into the hobby for so cheap with DMR, and a good transceiver is alot more than that. But that really goes without saying with you seasoned hams, you know what you paid for your equipment.
Alot of the arguments posed are valid ones. If you don't use the bands, then they will be lost. And that is the last thing i want to see, believe me. My main post was to chime in on what was offered in terms of frequencies for the tech, and to state that i am satisfied with those frequencies, and the use of one of those technologies that us techs can access, DMR radio.
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Alot of the arguments posed are valid ones. If you don't use the bands, then they will be lost. And that is the last thing i want to see, believe me. My main post was to chime in on what was offered in terms of frequencies for the tech, and to state that i am satisfied with those frequencies, and the use of one of those technologies that us techs can access, DMR radio.
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jjbond/Jen - Want an 'entry level' license with privileges on all bands? Okay, but make it for a limited time period like the old original Novice license. Or maybe a low power limit? The tech class license isn't an 'entry level' license, never has been until very recently. So if you want to make it one, put a time limit on it. I sort of think that won't fly at all though.
Great conversation, thank you mods for not closing this thread or insisting we take it to a political forum, I really appreciate it...
Sorry, I did not intend to mean i wanted anything other than that some of those coming into the hobby now help us carry the torch for those passing on, and not be "satisfied" with a DMR handheld cus ham radio can be so much more fun and we need them as advocates, inovators and dreamers, not just appliance operators. And I didn't state a desire for HF privileges on all bands, I think the Novice class was perfect, just a sampling, a teaser so they'll upgrade but if it helps the hobby, then ok it will let them experiment with multi band antennas etc. Your idea regarding time limits and power limitations etc sounds like a great idea..... kind of what we use to know as the Novice class (see below), but that still doesn't negate the concern of there being no motivation to move past that if they still have access to worldwide communications via digital. I'd suggest that that particular class of license be what it was, VHF/UHF a teaser of HF to motivate them, and no access to DMR, Network Radio sites etc that provided the same privileges essentially as a General or Extra, which is what they have now with DMR. There use to be areas of the bands only Generals and Extras could talk, and I use to listen, wanting to talk with them, that motivated me to upgrade. That scenario does not exist in DMR, IP radio ect. Not to mention the loss of Elmering, there won't be a need for Elmer's, one of the best parts, kids these days come out of the whomb knowing how to run technology so Elmers will go to the dust bin as well.
Regarding your statement "The tech class license isn't an 'entry level' license, never has been until very recently."
Everyone has a different interpretation of the Technician class... I used the ARRL description and the Wikipedia description for both Tech and Novice but everyone has their own impression of what it was or currently is, I just hope whatever they are, they're not the beginning of the end to amateur radio....
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Absolutely, I think that's been the biggest #1 factor by far, you can buy a new DMR radio for $59.00, link below.. wow. My first 2 meter portable was an Icom IC2AT at about $400.00.... not an 02AT with digital display, I'm talking the one with thumb wheels on the top for frequency selection. The N1MU Icom IC-2A, IC-2AT, IC-3AT, IC-03AT and IC-4AT Museum
Radioddity x Baofeng RD-5R | Dual Band | Dual Time Slot | DMR | Digital Monitor
I look at the IC-7300 on my desk and compare that to the Kenwood TS-440, or my Yaesu FT-757 which were two of my early radios and there is so much more tech in today's radios dollar for dollar, and I think that's awesome. I'd love to see some of those same companies do more with their HF entries for starter lower price radios for new people, to give some competition to the FT-818 (which is nothing more than an FT-817 in a new suite in my opinion, wow was that a blown opportunity) it's easy for a new ham to find a DMR portable to see, use and get interested in, everyone has them, but items like below are still kind of unique here in the US for new hams, to excite them, but hopefully that will change.
XIEGU G1M HF Transceiver | Quad Band | Portable SDR | QRP | 5W SSB CW AW
Xiegu G90 HF Radio | SDR | QRP | Auto Antenna Tuner | 20W | Remote Head
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Two links intended for above in my comment about us losing 220 and possibly losing more, :
Posted recently: Possible loss of 144-146 globally:
2m amateur radio band endangered?
Posted 2 days ago: No more 2 meter in region 1, only one group bothered to fight for hams in that area, read the article, 23cm is next.
A World Radiocommunication Conference 2023 (WRC-23) agenda item proposing to study a range of frequencies, including potentially reassigning 144 – 146 MHz as a primary Aeronautical Mobile Service allocation, drew little opposition at a meeting of the European Conference of Postal and Telecommunications Administrations (CEPT) Project Team A. “We hear only one admin[istration] (Germany) opposed the 144 MHz proposal — no one else. The International Amateur Radio Union (IARU), which was represented at the Prague meeting, expressed “grave concern” to any proposal that would include 144 – 146 MHz in the proposed Aeronautical Mobile Services agenda item. That comprises the entire available 2-meter band in ITU Region 1
No Strong Opposition to 144 – 146 MHz Reallocation Proposal at CEPT Meeting
Posted recently: Possible loss of 144-146 globally:
2m amateur radio band endangered?
Posted 2 days ago: No more 2 meter in region 1, only one group bothered to fight for hams in that area, read the article, 23cm is next.
A World Radiocommunication Conference 2023 (WRC-23) agenda item proposing to study a range of frequencies, including potentially reassigning 144 – 146 MHz as a primary Aeronautical Mobile Service allocation, drew little opposition at a meeting of the European Conference of Postal and Telecommunications Administrations (CEPT) Project Team A. “We hear only one admin[istration] (Germany) opposed the 144 MHz proposal — no one else. The International Amateur Radio Union (IARU), which was represented at the Prague meeting, expressed “grave concern” to any proposal that would include 144 – 146 MHz in the proposed Aeronautical Mobile Services agenda item. That comprises the entire available 2-meter band in ITU Region 1
No Strong Opposition to 144 – 146 MHz Reallocation Proposal at CEPT Meeting
The only reason the Technician class license is an "entry" class license is that there is no longer a class of license lower than it is. It has almost the same question difficulty as the General class, just a little different.
I think an 'entry' license should be exactly that. Something to see if the effort of learning enough to pass a test is worth the trouble for the one who thinks they want to enter the hobby. A 'learners' license. What's wrong with that? An easy license to get your feet wet sort of.
Are 'learners' licenses/permits worth having? I think so and there are plenty of good examples. And as for my personal feelings, I think it's time for this country to open it's eyes and taking a look at the attitude that seems to be growing even bigger. I think it's time we quit 'dumming things down' so it's "fair" for everyone.
And that'senough of this, I quit...
I think an 'entry' license should be exactly that. Something to see if the effort of learning enough to pass a test is worth the trouble for the one who thinks they want to enter the hobby. A 'learners' license. What's wrong with that? An easy license to get your feet wet sort of.
Are 'learners' licenses/permits worth having? I think so and there are plenty of good examples. And as for my personal feelings, I think it's time for this country to open it's eyes and taking a look at the attitude that seems to be growing even bigger. I think it's time we quit 'dumming things down' so it's "fair" for everyone.
And that'senough of this, I quit...
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