FCC search by entity, where are the mobile freqs?

[seligman]

I noticed that many of the mobile frequencies are missing when you use the FCC Search by Entity function. The database will show the fixed locations, but omits the mobile entries on the same license.

 

[georgew0819]

Mobile Freqs

When you use the FCC search once you get the entity, click on the name, then on the next screen click on the call sign in blue. It and it expands to show you the FCC license info including the number of mobiles on the license and the mobile frequency below the map.

If for some reason its not in the database you can try searching FCC ULS Search page License Search

 

[seligman]

When you use the FCC search once you get the entity, click on the name, then on the next screen click on the call sign in blue. It and it expands to show you the FCC license info including the number of mobiles on the license and the mobile frequency below the map.

If for some reason its not in the database you can try searching FCC ULS Search page License Search

Unfortunately, this isn't practical when dealing with hundreds of licenses over many states (like I'm trying to do).

Hopefully this problem is correctable. If not, I'm sorry to say I'll be very disappointed. My intent was to merge several pages of frequencies, listen and take some notes, then help update the RR database.

This task is impossible unless the database can be fixed.

 

[mtindor]

It displays the mobiles for some but not for others. I'm betting there is a rhyme or reason to it. I bet that if you try to get a list for a license that is strictly an FB/MO license (i.e. simplex base/mobile setup), it probably only listed FB. But if you search for an entity that has a base/mobile repeater pair or base/mobile split pair, or just MO freqs, I think it pulls them up.

Mike

 

[ecps92]

If you rely on the FCC to determine input/output [Non UHF] good luck.
Larger Agencies [Boston Police as an example] have thousands of licenses and many of the licenses are for the Rptr Only [Not an input, only the Output]. The input [mobiles, control station] is on a different licenese.

It displays the mobiles for some but not for others. I'm betting there is a rhyme or reason to it. I bet that if you try to get a list for a license that is strictly an FB/MO license (i.e. simplex base/mobile setup), it probably only listed FB. But if you search for an entity that has a base/mobile repeater pair or base/mobile split pair, or just MO freqs, I think it pulls them up.

Mike

 

[loumaag]

I noticed that many of the mobile frequencies are missing when you use the FCC Search by Entity function. The database will show the fixed locations, but omits the mobile entries on the same license.

In that it is a search function to aid you in finding something it allows you to search in a "wildcard" method. The first results you get of course just list the entities that answer the entered item, for example in Texas, if you entered "Harris" you get over 60 choices. Picking one at random HARRIS COUNTY EMERGENCY SERVICES DISTRICT 8 gets you a list of 4 items, none of them mobiles although the license (WQHN802) clearly shows the mobiles. Note however that although the license shows 8 separate entries, there are only 4 frequencies, shown by the four entries on the initial link to the ESD #8 link. Is this the case at the items you are looking at? If not, please provide a couple of specific examples (links please) and if there is a bug, I can report it.

 

[seligman]

I'm not sure I understand. Are you saying duplicate mobile frequencies, are - by design - intentionally removed from the FCC Search by Entity results?

Here's an example of missing frequencies, although there are many more. Scroll down to license KMA356: California Scanner Frequencies and Radio Frequency Reference

Then check out the license: FCC Callsign KMA356 Details

I counted at least 45 fixed frequency entries on the license page. Only 32 appear in the FCC Search by Entity link. The license also shows 15 mobile entries, none of which appear on the other link.

Mobile frequencies missing completely:
161.490
161.535
160.590
457.175

 

[loumaag]

You are going to have to try that again, your first link doesn't go anywhere that makes sense:

http://www.radioreference.com/apps/db/?action=fle&os=0&stid=6&en=BNSF%20Railway%20Company&s=cs

What does the BNSF have to do with this?

As for you question, I don't know, I asked you if this was what you were seeing.

I will repeat that the search function is designed to help you get somewhere, not for DB review. It is also not part of our Database.

 

[mtindor]

You are going to have to try that again, your first link doesn't go anywhere that makes sense:

http://www.radioreference.com/apps/db/?action=fle&os=0&stid=6&en=BNSF%20Railway%20Company&s=cs

What does the BNSF have to do with this?

As for you question, I don't know, I asked you if this was what you were seeing.

I will repeat that the search function is designed to help you get somewhere, not for DB review. It is also not part of our Database.

Lou,

He is using BNSF just as an example entity. If you understand what he is doing, the link he provided will make sense. The link he gave you is a resultant link that he pulled from the address bar after having gone to Search FCC Entity and typed in BNSF Railway Company (along with using some other criteria to narrow it down). He did something similar [but not exactly the same] as what i did in my 5-step process listed below.

Compare these two:

http://www.radioreference.com/apps/db/?action=fle&os=200&s=ent&stid=6&en=BNSF%20Railway%20Company

and

http://www.radioreference.com/apps/db/?cs=KMA356

The second link is a direct link to the callsign (if you type a callsign in the callsign search for example).

The first link is the results you get when you do this:
1. use Search by Entity
2. Select California
3. Type in: BNSF
4. Do the search
5. Out of the results, select BNSF Railway Company

Then you will see multiple frequencies associated with multiple licenses (including KMA356) - but you won't see most of the "mobile" frequencies that you would see if you were to query the callsign information directly from the callsign query (i.e. the first link).

So he is right - for whatever reason, when you do a Search by Entity - it is not including everything in there for a particular license (all the base/mobile/etc stuff) that you would see if you queries that specific license via /apps/db/?cs=KMA356 .

So if you go back to his original link and copy/paste it in to pull up the page, it lists a bunch of California licenses for BNSF Railway Company - one of those licenses being KMA356. However, it's not listing ALL of the frequencies that are under KMA356 for whatever reason. And you can see this when you query KMA356 directly via _my_ second link above.

Whether it is by design or not, I don't know and can't comment. But I certainly see what he is referring to - and it does appear to be a problem.


Mike

 

[loumaag]

Lou,

He is using BNSF just as an example entity. If you understand what he is doing, the link he provided will make sense. The link he gave you is a resultant link that he pulled from the address bar after having gone to Search FCC Entity and typed in BNSF Railway Company (along with using some other criteria to narrow it down). He did something similar [but not exactly the same] as what i did in my 5-step process listed below.

Compare these two:

http://www.radioreference.com/apps/db/?action=fle&os=200&s=ent&stid=6&en=BNSF%20Railway%20Company

and

http://www.radioreference.com/apps/db/?cs=KMA356

The second link is a direct link to the callsign (if you type a callsign in the callsign search for example).

The first link is the results you get when you do this:
1. use Search by Entity
2. Select California
3. Type in: BNSF
4. Do the search
5. Out of the results, select BNSF Railway Company

Then you will see multiple frequencies associated with multiple licenses (including KMA356) - but you won't see most of the "mobile" frequencies that you would see if you were to query the callsign information directly from the callsign query (i.e. the first link).

So he is right - for whatever reason, when you do a Search by Entity - it is not including everything in there for a particular license (all the base/mobile/etc stuff) that you would see if you queries that specific license via /apps/db/?cs=KMA356 .

So if you go back to his original link and copy/paste it in to pull up the page, it lists a bunch of California licenses for BNSF Railway Company - one of those licenses being KMA356. However, it's not listing ALL of the frequencies that are under KMA356 for whatever reason. And you can see this when you query KMA356 directly via _my_ second link above.

Whether it is by design or not, I don't know and can't comment. But I certainly see what he is referring to - and it does appear to be a problem.


Mike

Mike,
Since you seem to have a handle on it and have determined it is a problem, go ahead and put in a Mantis ticket so Lindsay can address it.

 

[mtindor]

Mike,
Since you seem to have a handle on it and have determined it is a problem, go ahead and put in a Mantis ticket so Lindsay can address it.

<insert 15 or 20 profanities>

Ok

M

 

[mtindor]

I noticed that many of the mobile frequencies are missing when you use the FCC Search by Entity function. The database will show the fixed locations, but omits the mobile entries on the same license.

Per Lou's suggestion, I opened a ticket has been opened regarding this issue. It'll be looked into based upon whatever priority Lindsay sees fit.

Unfortunately, this isn't practical when dealing with hundreds of licenses over many states (like I'm trying to do).

Hopefully this problem is correctable. If not, I'm sorry to say I'll be very disappointed. My intent was to merge several pages of frequencies, listen and take some notes, then help update the RR database.

No reason to be "disappointed" so early on, before you know whether it can/will be fixed to your liking. A large number of people on here have probably never used the Search by Entity function. Out of those people who did/do use it, most of them probably never realized it wasn't returning the expected result. If it doesn't get a good "workout" by the masses, there is always the possibility of a "bug" existing or it not returning the ideal information. I'm sure the issue will be looked at in due time. It's impossible to have everything work flawlessly for everyone in every case, especially if nobody before you [who experienced the same problem] thought to tell Lindsay that a problem existed.

Mike

 

[ecps92]

Take a look at the KMA356 License, and you will see the "STATE" is not included in 15 of the listings.... that might be the issue [Nationwide???] vs California

<insert 15 or 20 profanities>

Ok

M

 

[mtindor]

Take a look at the KMA356 License, and you will see the "STATE" is not included in 15 of the listings.... that might be the issue [Nationwide???] vs California

I think you've struck gold, Bill. That would make perfect sense. And in these cases we were doing specific searches limiting to the state of California. Even my testing was for a specific state. i imagine if we did not limit it, it would probably show up.

If that's the case, then it may be difficult for Linsday to make it so that it pulls all the content when a user specifically selects a state to limit the search with.

Mike

 

[seligman]

Take a look at the KMA356 License, and you will see the "STATE" is not included in 15 of the listings.... that might be the issue [Nationwide???] vs California

Good catch. I have a feeling this is the problem, and it's really a bigger issue involving both the licenses themselves and search by entity data.

Let me throw out a disclaimer here...I can tell from the start that it's difficult to link the mobile locations that are "related" to the fixed locations. You know, the ones that say something like, "Location 2-Mobile = 40.0 km radius around a fixed location 1".

This has to be a nightmare for Lindsay and everybody else who manages the database. I feel their pain. At the same time, if I had to pick just one upgrade for the site, this would be it. It would be great to click on a fixed site in Google Maps and see the related mobile frequencies with their assigned radiuses.

If not this, a simpler solution would be on the license page, to say "40km radius around location 1". This would provide at least *something* to link the fixed and mobile freqs.

As it stands now, without lat/lon coordinates, city, county, or state, it's impossible to guess which frequencies might be related.

 

[ecps92]

Those and Nationwide always drove me crazy even with fcc.gov searches

Glad to help, I hope. :twisted:

I think you've struck gold, Bill. That would make perfect sense. And in these cases we were doing specific searches limiting to the state of California. Even my testing was for a specific state. i imagine if we did not limit it, it would probably show up.

If that's the case, then it may be difficult for Linsday to make it so that it pulls all the content when a user specifically selects a state to limit the search with.

Mike

 

[mtindor]

I'm sure it was of much help, Bill. I'm guessing anything that is listed in FCC records under a locatioon of "6.1 Meter Rule" doesn't make it in - and perhaps "radius surrounding..." as well.

Mike

 

[seligman]

I'm sure it was of much help, Bill. I'm guessing anything that is listed in FCC records under a locatioon of "6.1 Meter Rule" doesn't make it in - and perhaps "radius surrounding..." as well.

The missing mobile data is a huge, huge omission, in my opinion. I don't mean to throw stones, I'm just being honest.

I think the identified freq database could be improved greatly if it were easier to identify repeaters - which means the mobile data would have to be improved first.

 

[mtindor]

The missing mobile data is a huge, huge omission, in my opinion. I don't mean to throw stones, I'm just being honest.

I think the identified freq database could be improved greatly if it were easier to identify repeaters - which means the mobile data would have to be improved first.

The easiest way to identify a repeater is the FB2 status if you are pulling FCC data. It's actually fairly difficult to identify repeaters via just mobile data. In fact, in the FCC records it's often fairly difficult to determine _which_ mobile frequency is the correct mobile side of a repeater pair when there is more than one repeater pair - depending on how it was submitted to the FCC to begin with.

There are many ways to get the data you want... you just so happen to want that data in one particular way not currently supported in full and so it's an omission? Worse case scenario I may call it an "oversight." In my eyes the FCC Entity Search is a "feature" - a free one to boot. If additional functionality is added, such as that which you suggest, it would be an improvement.

I've already debated this more than I should have. The issue has the attention of those whose attention is needed - a ticket is open. Be patient.


Mike

 

[loumaag]

<insert 15 or 20 profanities>

Ok

M

Sorry Mike, it just seemed to make sense...and I didn't have to do it. :twisted:

This has to be a nightmare for Lindsay and everybody else who manages the database. I feel their pain. At the same time, if I had to pick just one upgrade for the site, this would be it. It would be great to click on a fixed site in Google Maps and see the related mobile frequencies with their assigned radiuses.

If not this, a simpler solution would be on the license page, to say "40km radius around location 1". This would provide at least *something* to link the fixed and mobile freqs.

And

The missing mobile data is a huge, huge omission, in my opinion. I don't mean to throw stones, I'm just being honest.

I think the identified freq database could be improved greatly if it were easier to identify repeaters - which means the mobile data would have to be improved first.

I think you have a slight misunderstanding of how the RR Database works. The Lat/Lon information will eventually get into the RR DB, as it is entered by the DB Admins; but that information will be based on service area and be based on either user submission or DB Admin experience.

The entity FCC search you are using has absolutely nothing to do with the RR Database. The FCC database that you are searching on is the same database available at fcc.gov. While I agree that mobile data on licenses that can be identified by location should be included on the return from that search, most mobile information does not have a location at all and hence will probably never appear as a return. Just to add to that, several entities use separate licensing for fixed and mobile (you can identify mobile only PS licenses by the structure of the call sign: AAnnnn) so they would never show up.