FCC Seeking Comments on HOA Restrictions, Impediments to Amateur Communications

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FCC asking asking about how CC&R's (restrictive covenants) may impede hams

FCC has issued a request for comments on EMERGENCY COMMUNICATIONS BY AMATEURRADIO AND IMPEDIMENTS TO AMATEUR RADIO COMMUNICATIONS.

Specifically, they are asking about how FCC has issued a request for comments on EMERGENCY COMMUNICATIONS BY AMATEURRADIO AND IMPEDIMENTS TO AMATEUR RADIO COMMUNICATIONS.

Specifically, they are asking about how CC&R's (restrictive covenants) may impede hams from providing emergency communications services.

This is our best chance to have FCC set rules that will protect hams' rights against unreasonable restrictions imposed by HOA's.

The Request for Comments (in pdf format) can be found at this link
http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_publi...A-12-523A1.pdf

You can submit your comments FCC's Electronic Comment Filing System at
ECFS Home Page
Click on Submit a Filing, then enter "12-91" in the "Proceeding Number" field and click Continue for further instruction.
You can also send your comments by mail to the address provided in the Request for Comments release.

You can see comments that were already submitted at
ECFS Home Page
Click Search for Filings, enter "12-91" in the "Proceeding Number" field and click Search for Comments

Please, do you part to help hams who live under restricted covenants.

73

S. Bucki
KD8KQH
 

K9WG

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Well, you know, I as much as any other Ham in such a situation feels the pain of not being able to install an antenna... But just like the people who move next to the airport and complain about the noise, you don't have to live there. I was well aware of the restrictions when I signed the purchase agreement. There were plenty of homes I could have purchased without the CC&Rs. I don't think the federal government (FCC) should be meddling in private agreements.

Just my not so humble opinion...
 

W2NJS

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At the same, CCIRs that were written many years ago are in conflict with today's radio world when they say, "no radio sending device shall be used, etc. etc.", to say nothing of the antenna restrictions. By strict interpretation under such a rule you are not permitted to use a cell phone from your own unit, which by today's standards is, of course, ridiculous and virtually unenforceable.

When I read about this FCC inquiry it occurred to me that a blanket exemption for VHF and UHF vertical antennas on the roof might be a good idea, but the minute you make an exception you could run into people who think it's permission to put up a quad, or worse.
 

thomast77

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I say if it is your property you should be able to do what you want. That being said I can fully understand a neighbors worry over a tower because it could end up on their house. But I don't understand banning a dipole. And you know those same people who oppose your antenna would be the first to come to you in an emergency.
 

K9WG

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I say if it is your property you should be able to do what you want. ... snip ....
But there again you agreed to the restrictions. Nobody was holding a gun to your head (well, maybe your wife) when you signed the agreement. You could use the same logic that since it is your property you should be able to operate a garage, welding shop, pig farm, coal mine, or whatever on it.
 

popnokick

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Many sides to this issue, and likely why FCC is seeking comment. Consider this: Where do the HOA/neighbor restrictive covenants impinge on Federal/State regulation/law? Your HOA/neighborhood may be banning/restricting:
- Roofing materials
- Construction styles
- House/door colors
- Children (none allowed)
- Pets
- Motorboats (but non-motorized boats OK)
- RVs
- Towed vehicles of any kind (whoops... . there goes the boat... unless you live on lake)
- Commercial vehicles
- Flagpoles and flags
- Outdoor cooking
- Motorcycles
- Firearms
- Antennas

A simple answer might be that the HOA/neighbor would need to sue to demonstrate actual harm being done by any of items in the list above. But put up the quad antenna, and the HOA says they can demonstrate harm being done to property values.... and are ready to meet you in court.

And the counter argument may be that items that are Federal/State regulated and subject to "eminent domain" preemption (such as the last three on the list) cannot be overridden by restrictive covenants. And that of course gives more power to the government.... something not always a good thing.
 
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thomast77

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But there again you agreed to the restrictions. Nobody was holding a gun to your head (well, maybe your wife) when you signed the agreement. You could use the same logic that since it is your property you should be able to operate a garage, welding shop, pig farm, coal mine, or whatever on it.
HOAs should be illegal. We already have zoning laws that take care of "garage, welding shop, pig farm, coal mine, or whatever on it." Obviously it is zoned residential which would mean no commercial operations.
 

reedeb

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HOAs should be illegal. We already have zoning laws that take care of "garage, welding shop, pig farm, coal mine, or whatever on it." Obviously it is zoned residential which would mean no commercial operations.
After living in one for a bit I agree. All HOA's are is a bunch of yahoos who decide they want to live in a cookie cutter environment [each house look the same,same color,roof the same yard the same grass the same height, and if anyone wants to be different OH NO!!!] and they love to control [that is the BIG deal CONTROL] everyone else around them to THEIR exact standards

BUT I can see if you do live in an HOA [and you did sign an agreement anyways] a tower wouldn't look good BUT one or two antennas will NOT kill someone if they are above the house.
 

mastr

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HOAs should be illegal. We already have zoning laws that take care of "garage, welding shop, pig farm, coal mine, or whatever on it." Obviously it is zoned residential which would mean no commercial operations.
I agree regarding HOAs, but just because your community has zoning, don't assume everyone does. Fortunately, my property is mine to do any of the things you mention on should I desire to do so. There is one caveat- for commercial coal mining, you get a mine permit from the state.
 

CCHLLM

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You're missing the point

Municipalities want HOAs to do the zone restriction enforcement instead of having to pay municipal personnel to do the job. Two of the residents have been asked by the HOA not to park work trucks in the driveway because "it might give visitors and prospective homeowners the wrong idea about what kind of neighborhood this is." I know, I was one of them. Well, my former work truck was a Ford F350 4x4 diesel and I parked it in the driveway because it wouldn't fit in the tree hugger sized Raisinettes box they have the unmitigated gall to call a 2-car garage. I'm going to solve the antenna and truck problems for myself and without regard for their feelings. My house is for sale, if anyone is interested.
 
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KZ4RV

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I worked at a condominium that was built in the early 70's. The rules said: No vans, and no motorcycles. In 1973, painters and hippies drove vans, and bikers drove motorcycles. Times had changed, but "rules are rules" and I have zero sympathy for the people that knowingly broke the rules and had their vehicles towed away, at their own expense. They ultimately revised the rules. On the flip-side, 20+ years ago, I had a humble 2BR/1 bath house, on the very edge of the local "Old Money" neighborhood. I had a large side yard, the perfect spot for 60' of tower and a Telrex TB6EM tribander. It wasn't very popular... there was a petition that circulated, the local newspaper and TV station had unpleasant things to say about it, my County didn't like it much, either, but it was one of those rare instances where I was right and the whole rest of the world was wrong. There used to be a dirt race track here when I was a kid... you guessed it, they built trailer parks around it, and all the old gummers complained about the noise, and it had to go. Ditto for what another poster said about airports: The local airport was an "air field" in WWII...and then they built neighborhoods around it, and *million$* have been spent on noise abatement and changing departure routes, etc.
At my present QTH, I could have chickens and pigs and horses if I wanted to. But, no, I wouldn't stand for that if I bought a villa in a condo community, and somebody thought that they could do whatever they want in their yard, just because "it's theirs".


Randy
 

Thayne

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Back in 2001 when I retired from my gov job and started doing more contracting, I had many customers in a 12 story condo bldg. They got some new people elected to the board that decreed all service trucks had to park about a block away, so I just told people who called that I wasn't going to carry heavy stuff that far. That lasted 1 year then a new board was elected and we all were invited back.
Alas, by then my belly was full of contracting anyway--so I never went back except for barbecues on the patios---:p
 

fineshot1

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you don't have to live there. I was well aware of the restrictions when I signed the purchase agreement. There were plenty of homes I could have purchased without the CC&Rs.

Just my not so humble opinion...
That is an extremely arrogant and narrow minded thing to say. You are assuming that
everywhere in the usa has an abundance of options for prospective buyers.
 

N5TWB

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It's been about a year now: anyone know where this landed?
They basically decided to do nothing since they deemed it to be not an issue since people could choose other locations. However, the ARRL has recently announced a plan to re-open this inquiry so stay tuned.
 

pgnsucks

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Reading previous posts I have never known anyone in my life who read all their closing documents. Let alone the documentation from a Gestapo HOA with a board full of power hungry executive members. Being in the field countless homeowners expressed their wish to sell an then leave their hoa and never get tangled up with one again.
 

silverf0x

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I bought my house several years ago before I even thought about becoming a ham. Now that I've just passed my technician test this past Friday, I'm looking at antenna options and seeing that with my HOA - I don't have the flexibility that I'd like. I have no plans for moving anytime soon, so I'll try to engage my HOA and see if there can be an exception for licensed hams.
 

AK9R

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It's been about a year now: anyone know where this landed?
The FCC supplied their response in report to Congress numbered DA 12-1342.

Quoting from the FCC's report "Therefore, at this time, we do not see a compelling reason for the Commission to revisit its previous determinations that preemption should not be expanded to CC&Rs."
 
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